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#102975 - 12/09/15 12:10 PM PC98  
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EoceneMiacid Offline
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Hi,

I'd like to run some software on the PC-98 (using the PC9821 driver). The thing is, images for this platform are probably the hardest to come by, and I haven't been succesful in finding any that are listed in the softlist.

The majority of software I manage to find come in .hdi format, which MAME apparently does not support. I can convert a .hdi using chdman (using createhd) and then load that, but then the system just boots to NEC N-88 Basic. I presume I need to create a blank hd image and install MS-DOS in it, and copy the game files in directories, then run the executable like 'our' DOS, or is there an easier way?

EDIT: The software list isn't too clear on the source of the software, it mentions the '13gb pack with ~90 rar files that's been floating around since 2011', which isn't too helpful. However I'm getting the '2013-03-04 NEC PC 9801 [TOSEC]', anybody know if these contain the same images?

Last edited by EoceneMiacid; 12/09/15 12:35 PM.
#102976 - 12/09/15 01:10 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Just go to Pleasuredome and get the "MAME 0.168 Software Lists CHDs" torrent.

#102978 - 12/09/15 02:31 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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The HDD firmware is disabled by default. Enable it in Machine Configuration.

#102984 - 12/09/15 06:36 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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also this IMHO highlights one of the problems we face, people not preserving original media, but instead preinstalled stuff.

#102986 - 12/09/15 09:46 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Whoa, it's now okay to talk about Pl*******Do** in plain? I remember a time when these kind of posts got moderated into oblivion ;-)

I think I once found a PC98 collection of mostly floppy images, but I'm not sure if I still have it (or where). I think most of that is now already included in the PD torrent anyway (it was only about 4gig or so). If there's interest I could take a look

#102987 - 12/09/15 10:59 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Because even telling people to type "MAME 0.168 ROMs" into Google wasn't working, MW switched to "f**k it, just tell them the sites" and I'm following suit. Anything that unblocks initial MAME setup I'm all for at this point.

#103030 - 12/15/15 09:47 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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So your advice is to, uh, download a 1.312 TB torrent, just because I'm interested in less than hundred MB's worth (if that) of ancient PC-98 software?

That is absolutely no option for me, even if I were prepared to take this seriously. Data caps, for one.

#103031 - 12/15/15 09:53 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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It's literally the easiest possible way to get fully up and running in MAME. And any torrent client made in the last 5 years lets you pick specific files out of the torrent.

#103032 - 12/15/15 10:05 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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In any good torrent client, you can pick and choose what files/folders you want.

#103033 - 12/15/15 10:13 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Okay yeah, this works for me.

I assumed the contents were packed into one archive (like the ones on archive.org), making choosing files impossible. When I queried about that here, I got the response that this was done intentionally to make sure all software was preserved, not just the popular stuff.

EDIT: I assume the software list for this system isn't fully completed yet? It doesn't contain Rude Breaker, which is a nifty little shmup by Compile, for example.

Last edited by EoceneMiacid; 12/15/15 10:27 PM.
#103035 - 12/15/15 10:21 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Actually, the one you want is "MAME 0.168 Software List ROMs", which is about 50 GB. There is no software list for PC-98 CDs (yet). smile

#103039 - 12/15/15 11:05 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Yeah I know, but thanks anyway.

Is it possible the CHD torrent is incomplete?
I'm looking for Assault Suits Leynos 2 (aleynos2), nifty game, had an import copy for my modded Saturn. It appears it's not in the torrent.

#103040 - 12/16/15 01:46 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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The torrents are based on the software lists; they contain exactly what's in the lists, no more, no less.

#103041 - 12/16/15 04:58 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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You can also choose files with the ones on archive.org, just add a / to the end of the .zip download URL to get a file listing.

#103402 - 01/01/16 03:41 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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I'm trying to load a chd image I made from an hdi file in mame but am having issues. The command I used to convert the hdi file is this:

chdman createhd -i Night Slave.hdi -o nightslave.chd

As you can tell the game is night slave. Now when trying to launch it in mame, I use this command:

mame64.exe pc9821 -ide:0 hdd -hard roms\nightslave.chd

However this just gets me dumped into the bios and doesn't launch the game. Does anybody here know how to launch games from the hard drive? It shows that the chd file is loaded in the hard drive in the menu and I have IDE bios loaded YES in the machine configuration.

#103409 - 01/01/16 03:02 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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If you're sure the image is bootable and you're getting the ROM BASIC prompt then most likely chdman needs the disk image geometry (-chs).

#103412 - 01/01/16 04:31 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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EoceneMiacid Offline
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As R. Belmont said earlier in this thread, it's easier to just obtain the softlisted version of the software.

By the way, Night Slave doesn't work yet.

#103415 - 01/01/16 05:40 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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It does work when booted from an HD image although the cutscene graphics are cut off and the music stops after a while. The softlist image isn't bootable and I've no idea how to start it.



#103418 - 01/01/16 07:58 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Originally Posted By crazyc
It does work when booted from an HD image although the cutscene graphics are cut off and the music stops after a while. The softlist image isn't bootable and I've no idea how to start it.


There is a softlist image of the hdi? All I see in the software list roms is a nightslv.zip which is a compilation of fdi images. I'm guessing you would have to use those to install to a blank hdd? Is that how you got yours working? The softwarelist chd roms only list pcecd.

Last edited by Xenphor; 01/01/16 07:59 PM.
#103421 - 01/01/16 08:54 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Xenphor]  
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You need to install/hot-swap* DOS 6.22, then use hdinst.exe inside Night Slave disk 1. If somebody wants to do a full tutorial about how to install stuff on pc98xx be my guest.

* Hot-swapping: run MS-DOS disk 1, wait until it prompts you to install DOS on a disk, press ESC in FULL keyboard mode then ENTER at はい for はい / いいえ (Yes/No).
(now at pc98xx prompt): change disk A into <select_your_game_running_only_on_dos> disk A, "dir *.exe" or "dir *.bat" for a list of executable commands. For Night Slave, hdinst.exe is the installer, nsg.exe is likely raw executable but it fails if not from HDD apparently.


#103422 - 01/01/16 09:10 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Xenphor]  
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Originally Posted By Xenphor

There is a softlist image of the hdi? All I see in the software list roms is a nightslv.zip which is a compilation of fdi images. I'm guessing you would have to use those to install to a blank hdd? Is that how you got yours working? The softwarelist chd roms only list pcecd.

As Kale said the softlist image is the install floppies. I ran it from an HDD image that it was already installed on like yours probably is.

#103423 - 01/01/16 09:24 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Originally Posted By Xenphor
chdman createhd -i Night Slave.hdi -o nightslave.chd


This won't work, chdman only supports raw hard drive images. HDI is an emulator format with headers etc. that chdman is not expecting.

Last edited by Justin; 01/01/16 09:26 PM.
#103424 - 01/01/16 09:29 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Is HDI documented somewhere?

#103425 - 01/01/16 10:43 PM Re: PC98 [Re: R. Belmont]  
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Maybe NP2 can help to understand the ANEX86 harddisk image (*.HDI) format?

#103426 - 01/01/16 11:00 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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Originally Posted By Kale
You need to install/hot-swap* DOS 6.22, then use hdinst.exe inside Night Slave disk 1. If somebody wants to do a full tutorial about how to install stuff on pc98xx be my guest.

* Hot-swapping: run MS-DOS disk 1, wait until it prompts you to install DOS on a disk, press ESC in FULL keyboard mode then ENTER at はい for はい / いいえ (Yes/No).
(now at pc98xx prompt): change disk A into <select_your_game_running_only_on_dos> disk A, "dir *.exe" or "dir *.bat" for a list of executable commands. For Night Slave, hdinst.exe is the installer, nsg.exe is likely raw executable but it fails if not from HDD apparently.


I'm assuming this is with a blank chd loaded in the hard drive? What are the parameters for creating a blank chd that is compatible with pc98?

#103427 - 01/02/16 12:06 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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If you want to install the game on HDD yes, you need a blank chd loaded into HDD slot. For hot-swapping no, you just need DOS loaded into the floppy drive as startup and follow my instructions (and yes, there are games on PC-98xx softlist that could be loaded like that).

#103451 - 01/03/16 01:20 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Graphics mode apparently a line should be drawn LR times. Fixes the Night Slave cutscenes.

#103452 - 01/03/16 03:38 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Sort of fixed 256 color mode. I don't know whats with the horizontal resolution. Never mind.

Last edited by crazyc; 01/03/16 03:51 AM.
#103494 - 01/05/16 01:50 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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This was striking thru the middle for the left selection, which was a bit bogus because it's the ul attribute.

#103506 - 01/05/16 06:37 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Install DOS 6.22 for PC-98x1 on an HDD

(This is a WIP guide, if any JP speaker wants to fill in the blanks be my guest. It'll eventually go in the main OS Install thread)

Pre-requisites as per MAME 0.169:
1. Enable "Load IDE BIOS" in Machine Configuration;
2. Create a blank HDD via chdman, anything with a sense like previous Amiga 600 example works just fine for PC-98 too (i.e. CHS 332,16,63).

Step-by-Step guide:
1. Launch PC-98x1 with your shiny new Hard Disk and disk 1 of DOS in drive A.

2. Wait until it prompts you to this, press ENTER on first option (?):


3. It then prompts you to partition select (?). Select first option and press ENTER again:


4. "Ready to install, ENTER to proceed, ESC to double check configuration" (?)


5. After some time, it eventually ask you to format HDD (?). Press ENTER twice to confirm:


6. "SYSTEM SHUTDOWN", which is a not-so-clever way to tell you to restart the machine, F3 should be enough.

(At this point, your HDD has bare minimum for DOS, i.e. COMMAND.COM and nothing else)

7. Once restarted, DOS asks you to tell the directory which it should be installed, also notice that the Yen symbol is an alias for backslash for PC-98xx. Next screen is a Yes/No confirmation:


8. At this point it'll start to feed DOS files into your HDD. When it prompts you to following screen just swap first drive disk into the designated disk number (so disk no. 2 here) and press ENTER:


9. If everything went correctly, DOS tells you detected HW (here: screen for default PC-9821), press ENTER here, then I guess it tells you to remove disk [8] here, press ENTER again, "SYSTEM SHUTDOWN" -> F3


Congrats, you just installed an OS without understanding a single word of the UI :p

Caveats:
1. PC-98xx drive letters are inverted compared to PC/AT when in normal config, i.e. HDD is A: / B: if present, floppy drives are C: / D:
2. Each time that you start up a PC-98 machine with a valid HDD, a screen with a list of bootable OS-es will appear (see previous post), so you could potentially install Windows / *nix / DOS / Miscellanea at the same time on the same HDD and just switch them at boot time.

#103509 - 01/05/16 08:18 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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All translations by GlitterBerri
Quote:
Creating an MS-DOS application disk.
Please choose the installation destination.
>Hard Disk
>Floppy Disk

Quote:
Please select the device to install.
>Device 1
>Device 2

Quote:
System management information is incorrect.
Initializing hard disk.

Quote:
Please indicate the storage capacity on MS-DOS, and press the Return key.
The max possible capacity is 163 megabits.

Quote:
Please indicate the installation directory, and press the Return key.

Quote:
Transferring contents of System Disk #2 to the hard disk.
Please swap the inserted floppy disk with System Disk #2.

#103511 - 01/05/16 09:49 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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For installing Windows NT 4.0 for PC98 from DOS (winnt /b or files from the PC98 directory copied to the CHD), it hangs at the kernel load after inserting disk3

#103512 - 01/05/16 10:20 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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This is a stretch, but is it possible to get FreeDOS running on it?

#103513 - 01/05/16 10:31 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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FreeDOS expects an XT compatible BIOS so not without a lot of work.

#103514 - 01/05/16 10:31 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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I think you can, provided you have the PC98 specific version.

#103519 - 01/06/16 01:45 AM Re: PC98 [Re: LoganB]  
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Originally Posted By LoganB
Quote:
Please indicate the storage capacity on MS-DOS, and press the Return key.
The max possible capacity is 163 megabits.

It's Megabytes, not Megabits. Other than that your translations look basically fine

#103521 - 01/06/16 02:42 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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It has been told that anything that DON'T access HW directly (i.e. uses int services) can be installed in PC-98xx.
Could be good to know what are these SWs but hey.

#103522 - 01/06/16 03:08 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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That's true for any non-pc msdos machine (FMtowns, Tandy 2000, Compis etc). PKZip is a good example.

#103524 - 01/06/16 07:47 AM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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If someone is interested on FreeDOS for PC98, I uploaded something on the FTP server (not public).
Tested on NP2/NP21.


#103526 - 01/06/16 10:17 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Nice! Is there a way to obtain this without having FTP access?
And would this be capable of running PC98 erog software?

Last edited by EoceneMiacid; 01/06/16 10:18 AM.
#103528 - 01/06/16 10:38 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Rude Breaker tested.


#103529 - 01/06/16 10:58 AM Re: PC98 [Re: Anna Wu]  
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Here some bootable harddisk images. Tested on NP21.


#103545 - 01/07/16 09:02 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Thank you.

#103975 - 02/01/16 09:27 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Here's Romero's E1M8 on PC98 Doom.

The only way that's not extremely difficult to inject files into the emulation right now is via a cdrom image. (In other words, I've gotten the cdrom to work)

#103976 - 02/01/16 09:44 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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This somewhat can also benefit if WinNT already works there.

#103980 - 02/02/16 09:23 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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That's interesting, Romero's E1M8 included readme states that a limit-removing port is required to play it, but apparently not

#103981 - 02/02/16 11:21 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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It'll start up without a limit-removing port, but if you actually get into a firefight you'll find the limits.

#103983 - 02/02/16 12:32 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Visplane overflow?

#103984 - 02/02/16 01:18 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Depends on the port. And this is now way off-topic. Don't make me lock this thread.

#104002 - 02/03/16 11:02 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Just minor EGC problems in Windows 2.1 remain.

#104018 - 02/07/16 06:07 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Finally got Windows Enhanced mode to work. VirtualHDIrq=off has to be set in SYSTEM.INI otherwise it fails to reflect the hdd irq to the BIOS (sometimes it doesn't even with the setting causing it to hang and the Windows 95 setup behaves similarly).

#104019 - 02/07/16 06:09 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Most impressed i've ever been seeing Windows up and running.

Last edited by EoceneMiacid; 02/07/16 09:12 PM.
#104101 - 02/15/16 03:35 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Only works in safe mode and some remaining graphical issues but it's a start.

#104109 - 02/15/16 05:38 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Maybe the text layer should be hidden automatically in 256-color mode.

#104113 - 02/15/16 06:47 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Originally Posted By crazyc

Only works in safe mode and some remaining graphical issues but it's a start.


Nice! smile

On NP2 (NP21NT) I can run Windows 98 SE only in safe mode.


#104117 - 02/15/16 07:49 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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I was able to make Win98SE work in normal mode on np21nt, just remove vrtwd.386 after setup.
And there's a romset for the PC9801BX4 floating around too.

Last edited by TheCollector1995; 02/15/16 07:51 PM.
#104118 - 02/15/16 07:59 PM Re: PC98 [Re: TheCollector1995]  
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Originally Posted By TheCollector1995
I was able to make Win98SE work in normal mode on np21nt, just remove vrtwd.386 after setup.
And there's a romset for the PC9801BX4 floating around too.


Oh, let me check ... smile

#104137 - 02/16/16 03:02 PM Re: PC98 [Re: TheCollector1995]  
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Originally Posted By TheCollector1995
I was able to make Win98SE work in normal mode on np21nt, just remove vrtwd.386 after setup.
And there's a romset for the PC9801BX4 floating around too.


Please check my PM. smile

#104139 - 02/16/16 06:35 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Also, as for the CDROM swap I talked about years ago, it turns out that mame is completely missing the Sense Unit Attention/Not Ready sense codes and some opcodes of the SCSI ASC.

#104158 - 02/18/16 09:02 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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NT 4.0 can *almost* be installed with the latest changes. Even the FAT to NTFS conversion works! It falls apart on the GUI part of the installation, though.

Also, I had to add a 16 MB option to the driver, otherwise it would complain about not having enough RAM.








#104160 - 02/18/16 09:30 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Wait, how did you get that far? I had to make some changes to the DMA code to make it not get a stop 7b when booting from the floppies. Anyway, I think that it's working in the last screen but the display controller autodetect failed.

#104161 - 02/18/16 09:48 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Very nice r09! and hmm, the DMA causing NT to freak out on the emulated pc98x1 drivers, and crazyc, what are the needed changes for the dma code? (I can wait for them to be submitted :))

Last edited by TheCollector1995; 02/18/16 09:50 PM. Reason: more info
#104162 - 02/18/16 09:59 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Submitted, no waiting required.

#104163 - 02/18/16 10:36 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Was wrong about the autodetect not working, it's just doing something unusual with the EGC enable. Will need for investigation but it can be forced with some debugger magic for now.


Edit:

Last edited by crazyc; 02/18/16 11:23 PM.
#104166 - 02/19/16 10:29 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Is it possible to run an old MAME32 in this, Inception-style? smile

#104167 - 02/19/16 12:47 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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We did that forever ago. Early MacMAME versions run in the Mac driver too.

#104168 - 02/19/16 06:01 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Originally Posted By crazyc
Wait, how did you get that far? I had to make some changes to the DMA code to make it not get a stop 7b when booting from the floppies. Anyway, I think that it's working in the last screen but the display controller autodetect failed.


I used "winnt /b" from DOS to skip the floppies and boot from HDD. smile

Glad to see it working, NT was a bit of a pain to install even in my actual PC-9821Nw150 (it has an additional Trident graphics chipset, and finding an appropriate driver for that was pure insanity), so getting it to work in an emulator is quite nice.

#104169 - 02/19/16 06:10 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Is there a driver for the 640x480x8 mode because at boot it complains about the video mode and seems to think that the 1120x750 from the PC-H98 should be available. Not being able to read japanese makes me a bit lost.

#104170 - 02/19/16 06:26 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Originally Posted By EoceneMiacid
Is it possible to run an old MAME32 in this, Inception-style? smile
Maybe it's time to add all the MAME versions to the softlists. :P

#104171 - 02/19/16 08:17 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Originally Posted By EoceneMiacid
Is it possible to run an old MAME32 in this, Inception-style? smile


Probably, Win32 apps are compatible across platforms. There is a PC98 specific version of DirectX 5 out there which you'll also need.
I'm sure I remember that I was able to run MAME32 on the FM Towns, despite it not being PC-compatible at all. MS-DOS apps will work too, if they don't do any direct hardware access. (PKZIP/PKUNZIP is a good example)


- Barry Rodewald
#104176 - 02/20/16 06:12 AM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Originally Posted By crazyc
Is there a driver for the 640x480x8 mode because at boot it complains about the video mode and seems to think that the 1120x750 from the PC-H98 should be available. Not being able to read japanese makes me a bit lost.


I think the default, non-accelerated driver (ノーマルモード) should be able to handle that, in theory, but I'm not really sure. It certainly didn't work with the Nw150, I had to find a specific driver for the Trident chipset.

#108396 - 01/11/17 05:50 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Guess this is failing due of CD-ROM drive not found?

ETA: album done at http://imgur.com/a/FFvqo

Last edited by Kale; 01/11/17 06:48 AM.
#108398 - 01/11/17 08:46 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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CD ROM drive not connected
Connect the CD ROM drive and run the installer again

press space to end

#108399 - 01/11/17 09:28 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Yep, wants a CD-ROM driver file, which I don't have apparently

#108400 - 01/11/17 01:02 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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Neko Project requires the "NECCDD.SYS" driver to access CDs.
No other CD driver works for Neko Project + Policenauts.

#108401 - 01/11/17 03:04 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Do you know config.sys /d parameter for neccdd.sys?

#108403 - 01/11/17 05:43 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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For Atragon, it says you need 10MB of space to install and drives with a green icon have enough space (on the screenshot, drive A should be OK). Click the 実行 button to install.

#108404 - 01/11/17 05:52 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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Originally Posted By Kale
Do you know config.sys /d parameter for neccdd.sys?


Not in detail. For Neko Project I use
Quote:
DEVICE=A:\NECCDD.SYS /D:CD_101


Neko Project

You might get a GDC clock error. If you do, click Emulate->Reset
while holding down the End key on your keyboard.
The BIOS will appear. Turn switch 2-8 OFF (2.5 MHz).

Also try to reduce the sound buffer to 100-200 ms to prevent audio lags.


#108407 - 01/11/17 08:31 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Anna Wu]  
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@Kale

"User (NP21).fdi" uploaded on FTP server (Uploads)
Try the userdisk with the "np21nt.exe"

#108410 - 01/11/17 11:57 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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For MAME I use NECCDM.SYS (24369 bytes) and it works pretty well. IIRC I tried to run Policenauts once and the installation worked, but the game crashed on boot with some kind of error. I'm not even really sure if that was due to the emulation or if I just screwed up while setting up the appropriate drivers, since it's a ridiculously finicky game even on real hardware.

#108413 - 01/12/17 05:28 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Doom 86 Mode faiing for some reason



Blandia 98, I don't get "graphic drv. err." too :P

#108414 - 01/12/17 07:18 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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The "some reason" is:

"Already operating in virtual 68 mode"

I guess the DX386 DOS extender doesn't like EMM386 (or whatever the PC98 uses instead for EMS)

The f.com file is apparently only for the EPSON PC Series

#108415 - 01/12/17 07:27 AM Re: PC98 [Re: Darkstar]  
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Doom (NP21 screenshots sorry because the MAME/MESS driver far away to be compatible)

My config.sys

Quote:
FCBS=1
FILES=20
BUFFERS=20
SHELL=\COMMAND.COM \ /P
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=\HIMEM.SYS
;DEVICE=\EMM386.EXE /M=2048 /UMB
;DOS=HIGH,UMB





#108416 - 01/12/17 11:39 AM Re: PC98 [Re: r09]  
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Originally Posted By r09
For MAME I use NECCDM.SYS (24369 bytes) and it works pretty well. IIRC I tried to run Policenauts once and the installation worked, but the game crashed on boot with some kind of error. I'm not even really sure if that was due to the emulation or if I just screwed up while setting up the appropriate drivers, since it's a ridiculously finicky game even on real hardware.


I don't have anything to contribute, other than, thank you for sharing that info. Later systems like the PC-98 or even regular PCs had no end of compatibility issues, and having confirmation of a game being unstable is intensely helpful for anyone working on emulating such systems, so they don't spend a lot of time trying to solve weird bugs that actually happened on real hardware. MAME could definitely benefit from more people like you. smile

#108417 - 01/12/17 11:58 AM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Nazo Puyo on Disc Station 9



Finish Hold 2 - Tag
Wants an user disk?

Last edited by Kale; 01/12/17 01:33 PM.
#108418 - 01/12/17 06:13 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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Originally Posted By Kale


Finish Hold 2 - Tag
Wants an user disk?

Actually it wants a serial number in the top field. The serial number was apparently written/printed on a "user registration card"

#108419 - 01/12/17 06:14 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Just Desserts]  
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Originally Posted By Just Desserts
Originally Posted By r09
For MAME I use NECCDM.SYS (24369 bytes) and it works pretty well. IIRC I tried to run Policenauts once and the installation worked, but the game crashed on boot with some kind of error. I'm not even really sure if that was due to the emulation or if I just screwed up while setting up the appropriate drivers, since it's a ridiculously finicky game even on real hardware.


I don't have anything to contribute, other than, thank you for sharing that info. Later systems like the PC-98 or even regular PCs had no end of compatibility issues, and having confirmation of a game being unstable is intensely helpful for anyone working on emulating such systems, so they don't spend a lot of time trying to solve weird bugs that actually happened on real hardware. MAME could definitely benefit from more people like you. smile


No prob, my PC-9821Nw150 is always available to anyone who wants to test anything on real HW. I don't have any older models to test, though. I only got that one because, being a laptop, I could get it sent to me from Japan more or less cheaply. That, and it's one of the last models with an actual FM synth. smile

By the way, I tried again and now I remember what happened: Policenauts requires the AVSDRV.SYS PCM driver, but it has to be a version that works with your specific hardware (I remember having to search everywhere for one that worked with the Nw150), and I couldn't find any that worked with MAME. So in the end I always get something like this:



Which would be something like "the PCM driver AVGSDRV.SYS isn't installed".

#108421 - 01/12/17 08:29 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Looks like shattered PPI change at https://github.com/mamedev/mame/pull/1950 broke the 9821 detecting ram over 640K (more correctly it fails to read the dip that shows that there is more ram). It sets the mouse ppi control to 0x93 which is port c upper output and lower input. I don't really know enough about how it's supposed to work in that case to fix it.

Edit: If the above is changed to
Code:
		if (port_c_upper_mode() == MODE_OUTPUT)
		{
			// read data from output latch
			data |= m_output[PORT_C] & mask & 0xf0;
		}

the it works again. Don't know how that effects the Displaywriter though.

WRT doom

Use "-cbus0 pc9801_86" for PCM audio and "-ramsize 14M" otherwise it'll fail with not enough ram. Also, disable HSB.SYS if you are using an HDD image with it.


Last edited by crazyc; 01/12/17 09:13 PM.
#108425 - 01/13/17 06:21 AM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
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Very nice, crazyc smile

#108426 - 01/13/17 06:27 AM Re: PC98 [Re: Darkstar]  
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Originally Posted By Darkstar
Originally Posted By Kale


Finish Hold 2 - Tag
Wants an user disk?

Actually it wants a serial number in the top field. The serial number was apparently written/printed on a "user registration card"


That was easy to nail:


It hangs here for 98RS tho.

Originally Posted By Kale


Nazo Puyo on Disc Station 9


Actually happens for all Nazo Puyos from Disc Stations (9, 10, 11), and yeah it's an error frown

Originally Posted By crazyc
Looks like shattered PPI change at https://github.com/mamedev/mame/pull/1950 broke the 9821 detecting ram over 640K (more correctly it fails to read the dip that shows that there is more ram). It sets the mouse ppi control to 0x93 which is port c upper output and lower input.


I guess PC-6001 needs to be checked out, it still uses an hack for ppi port(s)

Last edited by Kale; 01/13/17 06:36 AM.
#108427 - 01/13/17 02:33 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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Originally Posted By Kale
Originally Posted By Darkstar
[quote=Kale]
Nazo Puyo on Disc Station 9


Actually happens for all Nazo Puyos from Disc Stations (9, 10, 11), and yeah it's an error frown


On the 9821 with 14M ram. At this point I can do anything but the music plays and the blobs animate so it's not hung. I can't read it of course so it may or may not be an input problem.

#108428 - 01/13/17 04:13 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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It says "you have to delete 12 Puyos all at once"

#108429 - 01/13/17 04:19 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Maybe it's meant to use a mouse?

#108430 - 01/13/17 04:50 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Does the same in 9821 and 9801rs, 256 color mode is already emulated tho?

ETA: actually it's reading the ext2 f/f register, which I know what's expecting ...

Last edited by Kale; 01/13/17 04:58 PM.
#108432 - 01/13/17 05:30 PM Re: PC98 [Re: Kale]  
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"Magical Squadron Installer"
"PC-9821 DOS 256-color mode VRAM not available" (lit. "there is no ... VRAM")
"This program cannot be run on this CPU"
"Installation aborted"
"Please press any key"

Maybe we could put up a small "cheat sheet" with common Japanese terms on the Wiki...

#108433 - 01/13/17 05:38 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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The RS doesn't have 256 color mode so that won't work. I did see somewhere that on the 9821 there’s a switch to relocate the 256 color linear framebuffer for machines with >15M of RAM so it might be trying to use that.

#108434 - 01/13/17 05:51 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
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Kale Offline
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Code:

I/O	09A0h
名前	各種グラフィック関係ステータス読みだし
	Undocumented
対象	PC-98GS,PC-H98,PC-9821■[除くPC-9821Ts],
	PC-9801BA2・BS2・BX2・BX3・BA3・BX4・NS/A
機能
	[WRITE]
	bit 7~0: 読みだしステータス選択
		* I/O 09A0h bit 0から入力する情報を選択する
	[READ]
	bit 7~2: 未使用
	bit 1: グラフィックGDCクロック周波数読みだし
		0= 2.5MHz
		1= 5.0MHz
		関連	I/O 006Ah - 84h,85h
	bit 0: 各種グラフィック関係ステータス読みだし

		最後にI/O 09A0hに書き込んだ値によって読み出されるデータが
		選択される。

		--------+------------------------------------------------------
			|内容
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		00h	|I/O 09A0h非使用
			|* 常にI/O 09A0hからFFhが読み出されるように設定■[As2]
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		01h	|200ライン時のカラー/モノクロ設定
			|OUT 0068h,02h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(カラーモード)
			|OUT 0068h,03h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(モノクロモード)
			|	関連	I/O 0068h - 02h,03h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		02h	|奇数ラスタのマスク
			|OUT 0068h,08h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(マスク
			|OUT 0068h,09h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(マスク
			|	関連	I/O 0068h - 08h,09h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		03h	|画面表示のON/OFF
			|OUT 0068h,0Eh状態のときbit 0に0を返す(画面表示ON)
			|OUT 0068h,0Fh状態のときbit 0に1を返す(画面表示OFF)
			|	関連	I/O 0068h - 0Eh,0Fh
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		04h	|パレットモード
			|OUT 006Ah,00h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(デジタルパレットモード)
			|OUT 006Ah,01h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(アナログパレットモード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 00h,01h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		05h	|GDC同期モード
			|OUT 006Ah,40h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(CRTディスプレイモード)
			|OUT 006Ah,41h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(プラズマディスプレイモード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 40h,41h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		06h	|不明
			|OUT 006Ah,44h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,45h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 44h,45h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		07h	|EGCモード
			|OUT 006Ah,04h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(GRCG互換モード)
			|OUT 006Ah,05h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(EGC拡張モード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 04h,05h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		08h	|モードF/Fプロテクト
			|OUT 006Ah,06h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(モードF/Fプロテクト設定)
			|OUT 006Ah,07h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(モードF/Fプロテクト解除)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 06h,07h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		09h	|GDCクロック#0
			|OUT 006Ah,82h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(GDC 2.5MHzモード)
			|OUT 006Ah,83h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(GDC 5.0MHzモード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 82h,83h
			|		I/O 09A0h bit 1
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Ah	|グラフィックスモード■[PC-H98シリーズ+256色ボード,
			|	PC-9821初代・Ap・As・Ae・Ce・Ne・Af・Ap2・As2・Cs2・Ce2・
			|	An・Np・Ns・Es・Xt・Xa・Xn・Xp・Xs・Xe・Xf・Ap3・As3・
			|	Cf・Cx・Cb・Ld]
			|OUT 006Ah,20h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(16色モード)
			|OUT 006Ah,21h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(256色モード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 20h,21h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Bh	|VRAMアクセスモード■[PC-H98シリーズ+256色ボード]
			|OUT 006Ah,62h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(プレーンアクセスモード)
			|OUT 006Ah,63h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(パックトピクセルモード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 62h,63h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Ch	|不明
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Dh	|VRAMバウンダリモード
			|OUT 006Ah,68h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(2画面モード)
			|OUT 006Ah,69h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(1画面モード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 68h,69h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Eh	|グラフィックスモード■[PC-H98シリーズ+256色ボード]
			|OUT 006Ah,22h状態のときbit 0に0を返す(16・256色モード?)
			|OUT 006Ah,23h状態のときbit 0に1を返す(65536色モード)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 62h,63h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		0Fh	|65536色パレットモード■[PC-H98シリーズ+256色ボード]
			|OUT 006Ah,24h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(パレットは使用しない)
			|OUT 006Ah,25h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(一部パレット使用する)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 24h,25h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		10h	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,6Ah状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,6Bh状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 6Ah,6Bh
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		11h	|全画面リバースモード■[PC-H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,26h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(通常表示)
			|OUT 006Ah,27h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(リバース表示)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 26h,27h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		12h	|256色オーバースキャンカラー■[PC-H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,2Ch状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(通常表示)
			|OUT 006Ah,2Dh状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(オーバースキャンあり)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 2Ch,2Dh
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		13h	|全画面リバースモード■[PC-H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,28h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(通常表示)
			|OUT 006Ah,29h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(リバース表示)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 28h,29h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		14h	|描画プロセッサ選択■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,66h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(GDC描画)
			|OUT 006Ah,67h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(AGDC描画)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 66h,67h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		15h	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,60h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	EGC
			|OUT 006Ah,61h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	EEGC
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 60h,61h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		16h	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,C2h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,C3h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - C2h,C3h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		17h	|ビットマップ構成方向■[PC-H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,6Ch状態のときbit 0に0を返す(順方向)
			|OUT 006Ah,6Dh状態のときbit 0に1を返す(逆方向)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 6Ch,6Dh
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		18h	|高速パレット書き込み■[PC-H98]	
			|OUT 006Ah,2Ah状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|	(パレット書き込み通常)
			|OUT 006Ah,2Bh状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	(パレット書き込み高速)
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 2Ah,2Bh
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		19h	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,48h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,49h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 48h,49h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Ah	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,C8h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,C9h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - C8h,C9h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Bh	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,2Eh状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,2Fh状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 2Eh,2Fh
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Ch	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,6Eh状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,6Fh状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 6Eh,6Fh
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Dh	|不明■[H98]
			|OUT 006Ah,C0h状態のときbit 0に0を返す
			|OUT 006Ah,C1h状態のときbit 0に1を返す
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - C0h,C1h
	
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Eh	|不明
			|	out6ah,46h/out6ah,47h■[Ne以降]
			|	out6ah,80h/out6ah,81h
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 80h,81h■[PC-9821Ap・As・Ae]
			|		I/O 006Ah - 46h,47h
			|			■[PC-9821Ce・Ne・Af・Ap2・As2
			|				・Cs2・Ce・An]
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		1Fh	|不明■[PC-9821Ap・As・Ae]
			|	関連	I/O 006Ah - 08h,09h
		--------+------------------------------------------------------
		20h~FFh|未使用
		--------+------------------------------------------------------


For msquadro it's using setting 0x0a.
It's also using i/o port 0x9a8, which is GDC 31 kHz related register stuff.
Black screens after install anyway.

#108435 - 01/13/17 06:11 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 509
Darkstar Offline
Senior Member
Darkstar  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 509
GERMANY
Yeah, that apparently means it runs only on PC-H98 with a 256 color board or on one of the PC-9821 series mentioned.
Also it says that bit 0 returns 0 or 1 depending on whether 16 color mode or 256 color mode is active (apparently writing to 6Ah selects the color mode?). The first paragraph says for bit 0 of 9A0h that it returns "various kind of graphics related status settings" so it sounds reasonable...

Edit: reading a bit more of it makes it clearer. The value you write to the register selects what information you will get back on a subsequent read. But it seems that only bit 0 is used (with meanings defined in each section below), bit 1 always returns the graphics clock frequency, and all other bits are unused.

Last edited by Darkstar; 01/13/17 06:16 PM.
#108447 - 01/14/17 02:48 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,118
Kale Offline
Very Senior Member
Kale  Offline
Very Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,118
Naples, Italy
Originally Posted By crazyc
The RS doesn't have 256 color mode so that won't work. I did see somewhere that on the 9821 there’s a switch to relocate the 256 color linear framebuffer for machines with >15M of RAM so it might be trying to use that.


It's relocating 16 color mode banks, so that 0xa8000-0xaffff is a window VRAM while 0xe0000-0xe000x are registers for that.

If you can recall the exact pin-point of this feature that would be awesome wink







#108448 - 01/14/17 04:19 PM Re: PC98 [Re: EoceneMiacid]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 634
crazyc Offline
Senior Member
crazyc  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 634
I guess I was slightly wrong:

Quote:
I / O 043 Bh
Name 16 MB Space Memory Control
Undocumented
Target PC-9821 Af · Ap 2 · As 2 · Bp · Bs · Be · Bf · Cs 2 · Ce 2 · Ts · An · Xt · Xa · Xn · Xp · Xs · Xe
PC-9821 Np · Ns · Ne 2 · Nd · Es
PC-9801 BA 2, BS 2, BX 2, BA 3, BX 3, BX 4, NL / A, NS / A
function
[READ / WRITE]
Bit 7 to 3: not used (always 00000 b)
Bit 2: 16 MB space control
1 = normal memory space
0 = system used
Bit 1, 0: unknown (always 00b)
Comment o Whether the system uses memory space of F00000 to FFFFFFh or normal memory space
As shown in FIG.
O When 16 MB space is used as normal memory, it is possible to expand the expansion in F00000 to F7FFFFh
Graphics VRAM can not be used. However, even in this case FFF 00000 -
Extended graphics VRAM can be used if address of FFF7FFFFh is used.
In the case of
O On PCI bus-based models, besides this I / O, PCMC, PCI-C bus bridge, PCI-R
It is necessary to make settings for the Carbus bridge as well.
Related I / O 881 Eh bit 0 ■ [98NOTE, 98FiNE]
I / O 8F1Eh bit 0 ■ [Other than 98NOTE, 98FiNE]


Looks like the vram window at 0xF00000 can be disabled but the window at 0xFFF00000 is always available.

#108450 - 01/14/17 08:30 PM Re: PC98 [Re: crazyc]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 378
shattered Offline
Senior Member
shattered  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 378
Originally Posted By crazyc
Looks like shattered PPI change at https://github.com/mamedev/mame/pull/1950 broke the 9821 detecting ram over 640K (more correctly it fails to read the dip that shows that there is more ram). It sets the mouse ppi control to 0x93 which is port c upper output and lower input. I don't really know enough about how it's supposed to work in that case to fix it.

Edit: If the above is changed to
Code:
		if (port_c_upper_mode() == MODE_OUTPUT)
		{
			// read data from output latch
			data |= m_output[PORT_C] & mask & 0xf0;
		}

the it works again. Don't know how that effects the Displaywriter though.


Reverting this change doesn't break Displaywriter, so let's do that and figure out what PPI is supposed to do later.

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