Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#108050 - 11/29/16 08:27 PM 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
I think we don't have a dedicated 8 bit Apple thread yet - I came across an Apple /// blog that also has disk images, rom listings and a lot of information.

http://drop-iii-inches.com/

The earlier posts warp back to the time the Apple III driver in MESS became funcional smile

Last edited by rfka01; 11/29/16 08:41 PM.

NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#108051 - 11/29/16 08:35 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
Yeah, I've been following their podcast since it started. I might even actually be on it sometime.

Also, the IIgs isn't an 8-bit Apple smile

#108052 - 11/29/16 08:42 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
noted and reflected in the edited title smile


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#108053 - 11/29/16 09:04 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 163
robcfg Offline
Senior Member
robcfg  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 163
Madrid, Spain
I'm after a friend of mine to dump a german IIe.

Will be telling you when I achieve it.

#108054 - 11/29/16 09:16 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
@robcfg
A quick search shows the ROMs for a German IIe are available.


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#108056 - 11/29/16 10:53 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 163
robcfg Offline
Senior Member
robcfg  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 163
Madrid, Spain
Well, nobody knows for sure what you'll find inside an old computer laugh

It could have a less known rom set or an unusual expansion card... You get what I mean.

I'll also be scanning the PCB and taking pictures.

#108057 - 11/29/16 11:02 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
True dat smile


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#109048 - 03/02/17 06:30 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
This thread

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/19Q2hVgAS18

has links to Ramfast SCSI ROMs.


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#109049 - 03/02/17 07:18 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
Thanks! I actually have my own Ramfast rev. D board I can dump, and the Apple II Documentation Project has both the Apple II and Z180 ROMs for rev. C and D, but more versions are always better smile

#109503 - 05/01/17 06:19 PM Konan David Jr II [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#109567 - 05/11/17 01:25 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
The site What Is The Apple IIgs? put together a hard disk image of all of MECC's educational software for the Apple II that boots into a menu. Yes, Oregon Trail is included smile

I've converted it to CHD for the CFFA2 card here: https://mega.nz/#!8iRhHbwK!lcOVKK_BTo1wVvQFfRjZmPRgyulEFQisOnmrtUnXKSI

You can run it like so:

mess64 apple2ee -sl7 cffa2 -hard1 MECC.chd

Or if you want to risk some games being a bit fast:

mess64 apple2gs -sl7 cffa2 -hard1 MECC.chd

As a bonus, load times are far, far faster on the CFFA2 than even a mechanical HDD, and it blows floppies out of the water.

Last edited by R. Belmont; 05/11/17 01:28 PM.
#109577 - 05/14/17 10:32 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: R. Belmont]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I thought I'd try the MECC.chd and it's pretty cool.

A couple of problems though, on the apple2gs for some reason the auto repeat doesn't work for the arrow keys. The arrow key repeat works fine on the apple2ee. This makes the menu really hard to navigate as you can't get to the bottom of the list without pressing down arrow over and over. I did find that the open-apple or closed-apple plus arrow keys moves by a page in the menu.

And I can't seem to get the apple2gs into the text control panel with ctrl+open apple+escape. I tried everything I could think of, but it just won't go. (I was able to get into the text control panel by holding down closed apple on booting and choosing 1 for control panel)

On the apple2ee the Word Munchers game has all kinds of horizontal glitching on the screen when you're on the word grid. I don't see the horizontal glitching when run on the apple2gs driver.

I'm finding out that I'm not very good at matching the vowel sounds in word munchers. Guess I need some remedial practice.

I'm a bit of a noob with mame and the apple drivers so sorry if these are dumb questions.


Pics of the horizontal glitch on apple2ee on ubuntu 16.04 and mame185 compiled from source:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Golden Child; 05/14/17 03:03 PM. Reason: added pics
#109580 - 05/14/17 04:10 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
The 8-bit drivers are more modern and complete than the apple2gs driver, which dates to 2005 and has pretty much just been hacked to death since then. The 8-bit drivers support raster splits in order to (not always successfully) support the French Touch demos; the IIgs driver doesn't attempt to support 8-bit raster effects because they were basically unknown in 2005. My guess is the issue with Word Munchers is that it's inadvertently causing that support to engage when it shouldn't, I'll take a look.

I'm writing a new IIgs driver when I have time, which isn't often. It emulates the IIgs at a lower level than any existing emulator, and so progress is slower than I want it to be, but it's IMO necessary to do it that way.

Last edited by R. Belmont; 05/14/17 04:10 PM.
#110635 - 08/21/17 05:50 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
This thread

http://forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?page=Thread&postID=123001#post123001

contains a link to a book with hardware descriptions and circuit diagrams of the German Apple II clone maker, IBS.


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#110636 - 08/21/17 06:25 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
I couldn't immediately find that link, but all of the IBS hardware seems to be exact clones, not enhanced or modified so it's all good.

#110651 - 08/23/17 11:50 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
peter ferrie Offline
Member
peter ferrie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
The glitching might be caused by the game touching the graphics soft-switches while already in graphics mode, as a II+ compatible refresh-polling.
Canyon Climber did exactly that. I have fixed the driver for that case.

#110655 - 08/24/17 06:38 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: peter ferrie]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I just cloned current git and compiled it and I saw some glitching when doing hgr while in 80 column mode on the apple2e driver.

Just start up, interrupt the boot with CTRL+F12, PR#3, HGR, and then hitting enter repeatedly causes the text screen to scroll and while it's scrolling, there's a bunch of glitching. Once the scroll stops, the glitching disappears.


[Linked Image]

#110658 - 08/24/17 10:51 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
peter ferrie Offline
Member
peter ferrie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
It's likely to be same issue, but caused by another switch access which I overlooked.

#110659 - 08/25/17 01:38 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: peter ferrie]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Cool. Thanks for looking into the glitching issue.

On another note, I was having some trouble getting a printout from applesoft basic using the ssc and pr#1.

I can get it to output to a file, but the high bit on each byte seems to be set. A quick "tr '\200-\377' '\000-\177' " will strip the high bit from the output file but I was wondering if that's normal.

./mame64 apple2e -sl1 ssc -sl1:ssc:ssc_rs232 printer -printout outputfile.bin

and making sure that the printer and the ssc are using the same bps of 9600 in the Dip Switches and Machine Configuration menus

and then PR#1 and PRINT "HELLO" and PR#0


cat outputfile.bin | hexdump -C
00000000 8d 8a dd d0 d2 c9 ce d4 a0 a2 c8 c5 cc cc cf a2 |................|
00000010 8d 8a c8 c5 cc cc cf 8d 8a 8d 8a dd d0 d2 a3 b0 |................|
00000020

cat outputfile.bin | tr '\200-\377' '\000-\177' | hexdump -C
00000000 0d 0a 5d 50 52 49 4e 54 20 22 48 45 4c 4c 4f 22 |..]PRINT "HELLO"|
00000010 0d 0a 48 45 4c 4c 4f 0d 0a 0d 0a 5d 50 52 23 30 |..HELLO....]PR#0|
00000020

cat outputfile.bin | tr '\200-\377' '\000-\177'

]PRINT "HELLO"
HELLO

]PR#0

#110664 - 08/25/17 01:38 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
It's normal AFAIK for PR#1 to output Apple high-ASCII since the text screen requires the high bit to be set. Changing the SSC DIP switches to a 7-bit data format might help, assuming the serial printer device can also be changed to that format.

#110665 - 08/25/17 03:27 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: R. Belmont]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
That makes sense with regards to the high-bit.

I tried setting the ssc to 7 bit and the printer to 7 bit but it didn't seem to work properly, inserting spurious 7f characters.

PR#1, PRINT "TESTING 7 BIT" and it comes out mangled. Looks like 8 bit is the way to go.

Code
hexdump -C test7bit5.bin  
00000000  0d 29 5d 7f 50 52 7f 49  7f 4e 54 7f 20 7f 22 54  |.)].PR.I.NT. ."T|
00000010  7f 45 7f 53 54 7f 49 7f  4e 47 20 7f 37 7f 20 7f  |.E.ST.I.NG .7. .|
00000020  42 49 7f 54 7f 22 0d 29  54 15 4d 54 25 39 47 20  |BI.T.".)T.MT%9G |
00000030  5d 05 25 49 51 7f 0d 29  0d 29 5d 7f 50 52 7f 23  |].%IQ..).)].PR.#|
00000040  7f 30                                             |.0|
00000042

#110666 - 08/25/17 06:55 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
peter ferrie Offline
Member
peter ferrie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
Yes, it's normal behavior, as RB said. Apple "normal" mode text has at least the seventh bit set (i.e. #$80-FF); flash mode has only the sixth bit set (#$40-7F), inverse has neither bit set (i.e. #$00-3F), and you might notice that there's no lowercase in flash or inverse because of the restricted range.
No, you can't switch to 7-bit, because when it was 8-bit originally, you'll get the marker to say that a conversion happened, as you can see.
You'll have to send in 8-bit form, and then perform the conversion after the data arrive.

#110670 - 08/26/17 12:35 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Just for fun, I was fiddling with the arcbd and was able to get the MLDEMO to do something by adding this to a2arcadebd.cpp.

I don't know how correct this is, but they seem to run.

void a2bus_arcboard_device::write_c0nx(address_space &space, uint8_t offset, uint8_t data)
{
switch (offset)
{
case 0:
m_tms->vram_write(space, 0, data);
break;
case 1:
m_tms->register_write(space, 0, data);
break;


./mame64 apple2e -sl4 arcbd -flop1 Amparcade_1983_Third_Millenium_Engineering_Corporation.do -debug


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

It's interesting that in this article from Creative Computing that the mountain scene gets horizontally flipped left/right.

[Linked Image]


and the VDPTEST program runs now

before:
[Linked Image]
with the change:
[Linked Image]

#110674 - 08/27/17 11:55 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: Golden Child]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I got inspired and thought I'd take a stab at making a driver for the supersprite board basically copying the arcbd source and it works!

I hooked up the tms5220 and it has speech too. Amazing.

./mame64 apple2e -sl7 ssprite -flop1 StarSprite\ Demonstration.DSK -debug

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

Last edited by Golden Child; 08/27/17 12:34 PM.
#110693 - 09/01/17 02:01 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: peter ferrie]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
peter ferrie Offline
Member
peter ferrie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
The glitching is caused by the same issue, but I can't see how to fix it without rewriting the driver to use a timer to control screen updating.
The 80-column firmware does a lot of switching between pages, faster than the hardware can refresh the display, but each switch triggers a screen update in MAME.

#110694 - 09/01/17 12:14 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
Oh, that sucks. The French Touch demos flip page 1 / page 2 mid-scanline and expect it to change the display immediately. (BTW, they posted the source for all their stuff if you missed it).

#110696 - 09/01/17 05:52 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
rfka01 Offline
Senior Member
rfka01  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 724
Bavaria
Alive as ... a Do-Do

http://forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=11845

This thread contains the ROMs for an Apple II clone which has "Do-Do" as its signon message smile


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#110745 - 09/06/17 08:12 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I've been noticing that the sound output from the apple2e driver has a lot of "pops and crackles." It must be coming from the Mockingboard because it disappears if I bring up the ` volume sliders and set the volume for each AY channel to zero. It has a very regular pattern, almost like someone typing.

Is there a way to disable the Mockingboard from the command line as it seems to be hard wired in the driver? Like -sl4 empty_slot? I suppose I could always just comment it out and recompile.

MCFG_A2BUS_SLOT_ADD("a2bus", "sl4", apple2_cards, "mockingboard")

You can hear it in this video in the background:


#110746 - 09/06/17 08:23 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,826
Vas Crabb Offline
Very Senior Member
Vas Crabb  Offline
Very Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,826
Sydney, Australia
You can empty a slot from the command line, e.g. -sl4 "" (two double quotes with nothing between them), or you can put something like a mouse card in the slot instead.

#110747 - 09/06/17 12:09 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
I've never gotten that noise. I suspect your system isn't able to keep up with full frame rate with the Mockingboard installed. Enable the MAME keys and press F11 to monitor that - if it drops below 100% when you hear the crackles that's what's happening.

#110748 - 09/06/17 03:49 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I brought up the F11 display and sure enough, it was tracking below 100% at times. Most of the time it would hover from 90% to 100%. The pops would definitely get worse when momentarily it would drop to around 60%.

I'm running Ubuntu on a core i5 2.67G x 4, should that be able to keep up?

Unfortunately, the on board sound doesn't work under ubuntu, so I've got a USB audio adapter and I wonder if that contributes to any slowdowns.

Thanks for the -sl4 "" tip, that empties out the Mockingboard.

#110749 - 09/06/17 04:23 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
2.67 i5 should be fine. Do you have some background process that's using a lot of CPU?

#110750 - 09/06/17 04:37 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 33
anikom15 Offline
Member
anikom15  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 33
I know if I don't plug in my laptop, CPU governing kills performance on Windows.

#110751 - 09/06/17 05:07 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I can close pretty much everything (including firefox) and I still get the pops. It all works so well graphics and soundwise aside from the pops. If it didn't pop I wouldn't even notice that it wasn't running 100%.


I have ubuntu's system monitor running and it doesn't show excessive cpu.

edit:

using F8 and F9 to adjust the frameskip, along with F10 to toggle the throttle makes a big difference.

Setting frameskip to 4/10 and keeping throttle on results in virtually no popping/crackling at all.

I fiddled with some pulseaudio tips at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting#Glitches.2C_skips_or_crackling but that didn't seem to make any difference for me.


Last edited by Golden Child; 09/06/17 06:37 PM.
#110752 - 09/07/17 09:31 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,826
Vas Crabb Offline
Very Senior Member
Vas Crabb  Offline
Very Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,826
Sydney, Australia
If increasing frameskip improves performance, and MAME isn't pegged at 100% on a CPU core when you're experiencing the issues, it suggests an issue with video card drivers/configuration.

#110753 - 09/07/17 12:58 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
-sdlvideofps will give an idea how performant your video output is. Running an HP9000/320 on my MacBook, it says this:

Code
  0.01s,    1 F, avrg game: 68.78 FPS 14.54 ms/f, avrg video: 414.14 FPS 2.41 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.26 ms/f
  1.03s,   72 F, avrg game: 70.02 FPS 14.28 ms/f, avrg video: 708.18 FPS 1.41 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.18 ms/f
  2.03s,  142 F, avrg game: 69.98 FPS 14.29 ms/f, avrg video: 700.22 FPS 1.43 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 2.07 ms/f
  3.04s,  213 F, avrg game: 70.01 FPS 14.28 ms/f, avrg video: 719.18 FPS 1.39 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.15 ms/f
  4.06s,  284 F, avrg game: 70.00 FPS 14.29 ms/f, avrg video: 735.14 FPS 1.36 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.47 ms/f
  5.07s,  355 F, avrg game: 70.00 FPS 14.28 ms/f, avrg video: 738.10 FPS 1.35 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.19 ms/f


The "avrg game" is the core emulation's frame rate (this system is a computer putting out a 1024x768@70 Hz screen, so the 70.00 once it settles in is correct), and "avrg video" shows how fast MAME would run if all it did was upload frames in the current configuration. With decent GL drivers that should be above 300%; if it's much below that you might have problems.

#110754 - 09/07/17 04:25 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I tried -sdlvideofps with both -video opengl and -video soft and

Code
./mame64 apple2e -sdlvideofps -video opengl
  0.02s,    1 F, avrg game: 60.09 FPS 16.64 ms/f, avrg video: 115.03 FPS 8.69 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 4.33 ms/f
  1.02s,   57 F, avrg game: 55.82 FPS 17.91 ms/f, avrg video: 169.71 FPS 5.89 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.17 ms/f
  2.04s,  115 F, avrg game: 56.45 FPS 17.71 ms/f, avrg video: 164.82 FPS 6.07 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 2.71 ms/f
  3.04s,  171 F, avrg game: 56.27 FPS 17.77 ms/f, avrg video: 165.24 FPS 6.05 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.96 ms/f
  4.05s,  230 F, avrg game: 56.74 FPS 17.62 ms/f, avrg video: 170.18 FPS 5.88 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 16.02 ms/f
  5.07s,  289 F, avrg game: 57.04 FPS 17.53 ms/f, avrg video: 184.40 FPS 5.42 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 7.71 ms/f
  6.08s,  349 F, avrg game: 57.40 FPS 17.42 ms/f, avrg video: 196.23 FPS 5.10 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.16 ms/f
  7.09s,  408 F, avrg game: 57.53 FPS 17.38 ms/f, avrg video: 193.83 FPS 5.16 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 15.00 ms/f

./mame64 apple2e -video soft
  0.01s,    1 F, avrg game: 78.69 FPS 12.71 ms/f, avrg video: 75.66 FPS 13.22 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.12 ms/f
  1.02s,   59 F, avrg game: 57.62 FPS 17.36 ms/f, avrg video: 135.10 FPS 7.40 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 5.98 ms/f
  2.04s,  117 F, avrg game: 57.42 FPS 17.41 ms/f, avrg video: 121.47 FPS 8.23 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.30 ms/f
  3.06s,  175 F, avrg game: 57.12 FPS 17.51 ms/f, avrg video: 120.19 FPS 8.32 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 19.81 ms/f
  4.07s,  231 F, avrg game: 56.75 FPS 17.62 ms/f, avrg video: 114.54 FPS 8.73 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 29.81 ms/f
  5.08s,  289 F, avrg game: 56.92 FPS 17.57 ms/f, avrg video: 114.66 FPS 8.72 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.87 ms/f
  6.10s,  348 F, avrg game: 57.02 FPS 17.54 ms/f, avrg video: 112.14 FPS 8.92 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 19.09 ms/f
  7.12s,  408 F, avrg game: 57.33 FPS 17.44 ms/f, avrg video: 115.75 FPS 8.64 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.46 ms/f



-nowaitvsync doesn't seem to make any difference.

lspci tells me that I'm running a:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV710 [Radeon HD 4550]

glxinfo | grep AMD
Device: AMD RV710 (DRM 2.49.0 / 4.10.0-33-generic, LLVM 4.0.0) (0x9540)
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on AMD RV710 (DRM 2.49.0 / 4.10.0-33-generic, LLVM 4.0.0)

#110773 - 09/11/17 10:01 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I was fiddling with the apple2e driver's Machine Configuration/Composite Monitor Type options and I noticed that the B+W/green/amber don't properly show the shift from the high bit.

So if I do this:

HGR
HCOLOR=1
HPLOT 0,0 TO 8,0
HPLOT 0,1 TO 8,1
POKE 8192,PEEK(8192)+128

and if you are in the black and white modes,
the pixels in the top row should have a horizontal shift to them.

[Linked Image]

and here's another small program to illustrate:

100 HGR:DATA 1,5,2,6:FOR I = 1 TO 4:READ C:HCOLOR=C:HPLOT 0,I TO 279,I:NEXT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

and this is the result running the applepc emulator under dosbox

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Golden Child; 09/11/17 12:04 PM.
#110774 - 09/11/17 12:13 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
Yes, that's known. It'll get fixed whenever we end up doing correct NTSC decoding in-line.

#110781 - 09/12/17 01:57 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Is there a way to keep mame from exiting when you hit ESC when in Partial Keyboard Mode?

When using the apple2e driver, I find myself hitting ESC to do stuff like apple ESC-IJKM text screen editing and mame drops out immediately. It'd be awesome if there was a delay or something that you had to hold ESC for 3 seconds or some kind of exit confirmation. "Are you sure you want to exit?"

I must've done this 100 times now.

#110782 - 09/12/17 02:02 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: Golden Child]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
Pernod Offline
Senior Member
Pernod  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
UK
Originally Posted by Golden Child
Is there a way to keep mame from exiting when you hit ESC when in Partial Keyboard Mode?

Yep, add this to your mame.ini:
Code
confirm_quit              1

It'll be in the CORE MISC OPTIONS section.


BBC Micro
#110783 - 09/12/17 04:03 AM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: Pernod]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
ahhhh, thank you.

I see there's a command line option -confirm_quit also.

I kept looking for the mame.ini file and I see that I have to create it with ./mame64 -createconfig

#110787 - 09/12/17 02:15 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: Golden Child]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
It'd be cool if mame had a quit delay where you could just hit ESC, it would pop up a notification of an impending quit and if you were quiet for say 5 seconds without hitting any keystrokes it would exit, otherwise it would cancel the quit.

You'd have the convenience of -noconfirm_quit with the ability to recover if you accidentally hit ESC.

That would save you a keystroke of hitting the enter key.

Last edited by Golden Child; 09/12/17 02:15 PM.
#110789 - 09/12/17 11:47 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: R. Belmont]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
peter ferrie Offline
Member
peter ferrie  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by R. Belmont
Oh, that sucks. The French Touch demos flip page 1 / page 2 mid-scanline and expect it to change the display immediately. (BTW, they posted the source for all their stuff if you missed it).


I've added a check for 80-column mode, which seems to solve the problem.
The 40-col screen updates immediately, the 80-col one doesn't.
And yes, I saw the French Touch stuff. He was one person. His name is Arnaud. We got to know each other a little bit before he retired.

#110790 - 09/12/17 11:54 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
Great, thanks Peter!

#110792 - 09/14/17 07:50 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: Golden Child]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
I got an Intel Core i3-2120 based system running the integrated graphics and sound and that seems to have totally fixed the audio stuttering that I was seeing before:

According to Ubuntu's System Information:
Processor: Intel® Core™ i3-2120 CPU @ 3.30GHz × 4 (2 cores with hyperthreading)
Graphics: Intel® Sandybridge Desktop

I took the hard drive of my original Ubuntu 17.04 system, made an image with dd and copied that to the new system so it's the exact same system running on different hardware.

I hear no popping at all unless I fiddle with the bgfx video filter sliders and get to the slow ones.

On this computer, the onboard Intel audio works fine and I don't get pops even with the -video soft.

Code

./mame64 apple2e  -sdlvideofps -video bgfx  -prescale 2
  0.02s,    1 F, avrg game: 59.75 FPS 16.74 ms/f, avrg video: 1561.91 FPS 0.64 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 0.36 ms/f
  1.03s,   62 F, avrg game: 60.00 FPS 16.67 ms/f, avrg video: 3662.88 FPS 0.27 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 0.28 ms/f
  2.05s,  123 F, avrg game: 60.00 FPS 16.67 ms/f, avrg video: 3540.34 FPS 0.28 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 0.33 ms/f


./mame64 apple2e -sdlvideofps -video opengl -prescale 2
  0.02s,    1 F, avrg game: 60.02 FPS 16.66 ms/f, avrg video: 487.59 FPS 2.05 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.01 ms/f
  1.03s,   62 F, avrg game: 60.00 FPS 16.67 ms/f, avrg video: 821.80 FPS 1.22 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.01 ms/f
  2.05s,  123 F, avrg game: 60.00 FPS 16.67 ms/f, avrg video: 814.30 FPS 1.23 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 1.08 ms/f
 

./mame64 apple2e -sdlvideofps -video soft -prescale 2
  0.02s,    1 F, avrg game: 61.71 FPS 16.21 ms/f, avrg video: 77.32 FPS 12.93 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.24 ms/f
  1.03s,   62 F, avrg game: 60.05 FPS 16.65 ms/f, avrg video: 152.53 FPS 6.56 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 5.82 ms/f
  2.03s,  122 F, avrg game: 60.00 FPS 16.67 ms/f, avrg video: 151.10 FPS 6.62 ms/f, last video:   inf FPS 6.66 ms/f


Are those bgfx numbers for real? 3662 FPS?

So I did learn a couple of things:

Onboard video can be faster than a discrete card. (really!)

You can change the audio driver with:

export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulseaudio
export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=alsa

and -frameskip 6 will do exactly 30 FPS if you're into 30 fps video:

I pulled the usb audio device and put it on the new system and the pops are back. So I'm going to blame it on the usb sound dongle.

I feel like widlarizing that thing.

#110793 - 09/14/17 08:47 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: rfka01]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
R. Belmont Offline
R. Belmont  Offline

Very Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,707
USA
That's much better performance, glad you found the issue!

BGFX uses modern OpenGL on Linux, which is likely a faster path on the Intel drivers than the ancient GL 1.2/2.0 stuff -video opengl uses, although that much speedup is still kind of unexpected.

#110794 - 09/14/17 10:54 PM Re: 8bit Apples - Apple I, II, /// and the 16 bit GS [Re: R. Belmont]  
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Golden Child Offline
Member
Golden Child  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 53
Thanks for your help, RB. I am sure enjoying playing with the apple2e driver, especially now with no pops 8-)

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Who's Online Now
3 registered members (Reznor007, Heihachi_73, 1 invisible), 16 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Forum Statistics
Forums9
Topics8,411
Posts108,903
Members4,757
Most Online225
May 26th, 2014
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.051s Queries: 14 (0.010s) Memory: 5.3987 MB (Peak: 5.8900 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-09-20 21:53:33 UTC