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#110691 - 08/30/17 07:50 PM Kaypro 10  
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Over in the Kontron thread, Robbbert mentioned

Quote
The Kaypro 10 issue is that we had no info on the hard drive and its controller. That is why it's marked as not working.


Well, in my Kaypro 10 the harddisk is a Shugart 712 series, 10MB MFM drive

ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stut...-712_Hard_Disk_Reference_Manual_1984.pdf

According to the manual it's 320 cylinders, 4 heads and 32 or 33 sectors per track with 256 bytes per sector.

I wonder if the controller actually formats it that way ... it's a WD 1002-HD0 which offers different sector sizes ...

ftp://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stut...-0030_WD1002-05_HDO_OEM_Manual_Jul83.pdf

[Linked Image]

One of the hard disk controller's chips, the WD1010BL-00, clearly has a masked off window. Is this some common MCU that has been relabeled so I could dump it?

Between the controller and the mainboard sits the "intermediate board" that is described in some internet posts. It only has two ICs (a 74LS00N and a 74LS138B1) and adapts the 50pin connector coming from the mainboard to the 40pins needed by the WD 1002-HD0.

[Linked Image]

MAME's kaypro.cpp mentions

Quote
- See about getting keyboard to work as a serial device.
- Need dump of 87C51 cpu in the keyboard.


My Kaypro 10 has an 8049 keyboard controller which I'll dump as soon as I have my equipment back.

[Linked Image]


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#110698 - 09/01/17 09:10 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Are there any parts (ROMs, etc) or pictures needed from other Kaypro 10s? I have one that is moments away from the trash but I'm willing to save/document anything wanted.

#110700 - 09/01/17 09:14 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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I'd take it off your hands ... at least the boards and keyboard. Where are you based?


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#110710 - 09/02/17 09:33 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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I'm in VA, USA
it's pretty beat up and I just noticed now that the connector on the keyboard (the RJ11-looking one) is broken and loose inside the case.

I can take some pictures of the innards later if you want, any recommendations for an easy place to upload images to link here? I haven't needed to use one in a while, and I logged into photobucket for the first time in years and it's a hot mess of ads and random hijacking

#110712 - 09/03/17 09:03 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Hi Sharkpuncher,

I'm using imgur for the pictures.
If possible, do any and all dumpable ICs even if Kaypros are pretty documented - the BIOS ROM, the character ROM, open the keyboard and dump the 8049's ROM.
And then comes the dreaded WD1010BL-00 - at least on my harddisk controller. It's clearly a part with a ROM, but we'd need a clue as to what IC part it is so we can set the programmer accordingly.

If you can ship it for a non-lethal amount of money, I'd gladly rescue it.


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#110713 - 09/03/17 04:12 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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If Sharkpuncher wants to send me the WD1010BL-00, I'd be happy to decap it and take pics so you know what it is.

#110716 - 09/03/17 08:44 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
Hi Sharkpuncher,

I'm using imgur for the pictures.
If possible, do any and all dumpable ICs even if Kaypros are pretty documented - the BIOS ROM, the character ROM, open the keyboard and dump the 8049's ROM.
And then comes the dreaded WD1010BL-00 - at least on my harddisk controller. It's clearly a part with a ROM, but we'd need a clue as to what IC part it is so we can set the programmer accordingly.

If you can ship it for a non-lethal amount of money, I'd gladly rescue it.


Ok. If I get a chance this evening or tomorrow, I will pull it apart for some pictures and if you want to pay shipping I'm fine with sending it wherever. If I remove all the parts that make it a boat anchor it should not too prohibitive to ship...does the HD or floppy drive have anything that needs to be saved for decapping?

#110717 - 09/03/17 08:55 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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OK, thanks, Sharkpuncher. If possible, send the drives too ... nothing to be dumped, but maybe to be imaged. I can do that on my end.

@seanriddle ... thanks for the offer! I'd say we wait for Sharkpunchers pictures to see if it's even the same controller as I have.


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#110735 - 09/05/17 05:12 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Sorry for the delay, I had a busy weekend. Here are the images I took, I can see a few differences between yours and mine.

Main board
[Linked Image]

IO Board
[Linked Image]

"Intermediate" Board
[Linked Image]

Floppy Drive (Top)
[Linked Image]

Floppy Drive (Bottom)
[Linked Image]
(I guess it was commonplace to have to adjust the timing on drives?)

HD Controller (Seagate ST-212)
[Linked Image]

I didn't take apart the keyboard but I can do that if you wish. Regarding the drives, for the HD there are a couple wires that are hardwired in at another location (one looks like a ground line and the other is for the LEDs), so if you want the drive as well let me know if you want me to cut the wires at a certain point or if you have any particular advice.

#110736 - 09/05/17 05:15 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Oh also I do have the capability to dump chips, though I have yet to do so. So I can also try giving that a shot if you want.

#110737 - 09/05/17 05:17 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: Sharkpuncher]  
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Originally Posted by Sharkpuncher
Sorry for the delay, I had a busy weekend. Here are the images I took, I can see a few differences between yours and mine.
....



I totally forgot, there was a daughterboard of some kind piggybacked on the main board @U43 but I forgot to take a picture of it, I'll do that later.

Last edited by Sharkpuncher; 09/05/17 06:46 PM.
#110739 - 09/05/17 06:58 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Hi Sharkpuncher, thanks for the pictures ... if you can, read the ICs at U9 and U34 ... and also the keyboard MCU.

As for the hard disk controller ... what is known about the chipset?

The only thing that seems somewhat close is the wdxt_gen.cpp ISA harddisk controller ...


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#111050 - 10/13/17 11:28 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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I've issued a pull request for the Omni 4 logic analyzer. We already had the ROMs for the Omni 2, this 4 is based on the Kaypro 4/84 instead of the II.

[Linked Image]

The story of archiving the Omni 4's disk and ROMs (and the files) can be found here:

https://hackaday.io/project/20151-floppy-fun-backing-up-a-unique-kay-pro-disk

The emulated Omni 4 boots the disk image, but the logic analyzer software obviously complains about the missing i/o board.


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#111051 - 10/14/17 04:19 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Here's the promised dump of my Kaypro 10's keyboard controller. It's a Mitsubishi 8049 that I've dumped using the i8749 settings. It's on the FTP as well, as usual.

Kaypro 10 keyboard MCU dump

Last edited by rfka01; 10/14/17 04:19 PM.

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#111053 - 10/15/17 10:06 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Cool, a small one. I like emulating keyboards, so I'll take a look at it some time. No guarantee we can support it yet, because we don't emulate MCS-51 onboard serial and it could very well use that. Is it just the MCU in the keyboard, or does it have a mapping PROM as well? What's the chip's clock source? IIRC the Kaypro uses a 300 Baud ASCII keyboard.

#111054 - 10/15/17 10:33 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Vas, there's a picture of the 8049 in the keyboard on page 1 of this thread - next to it sits a 6 MHz crystal. Also on page 1 is a photo of sharkpuncher's mainboard which shows this side of things.

Here's the technical manual

https://www.mirrorservice.org/sites...o/1484-D_KayproTechnicalManual_Dec84.pdf

Keyboard ports are on page 142


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#111057 - 10/15/17 04:29 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Here's a piece about the Kaypro keyboard ... 300 Baud seems to be correct.

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2010-02-18-kaypro-m100-keyboard.htm

Last edited by rfka01; 10/15/17 04:30 PM.

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#111058 - 10/15/17 06:09 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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MCS-48 doesn't have builtin serial, does it? (except via bitbanging in software, which is why the notetaker used an hd6402 uart outside the 8748 chip...)

LN


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#111068 - 10/16/17 05:23 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Yeah, intel MCS48 doesn't have onboard serial. That's good news. Also, fairly small program, so should be tight code and easy to work out. BTW what's the small chip? I can't read its label. The big chip is a demux presumably used for scanning rows as in the Zorba keyboard.

#111071 - 10/16/17 06:20 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Right, the chips are: SN74154N, the crystal, the 8049, a SN75451BP, a beeper and a DM7406N


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#111072 - 10/16/17 06:36 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Ah, the small one is line driver to deal with a long-ish cable then.

#111073 - 10/16/17 08:13 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Sorry, the keyboard dump is bad. The code looks OK from 0x0000 to 0x006b, but the rest of it is just 0x90 repeated, so most of the program is outright missing. Could you try redumping it?

#111076 - 10/16/17 09:43 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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My programmer only has a setting for the 8749 ... am I correct in assuming that the 8049 can be read in that setting (the 8049 is ROM instead of EPROM)?


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#111077 - 10/16/17 11:09 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
I've issued a pull request for the Omni 4 logic analyzer. We already had the ROMs for the Omni 2, this 4 is based on the Kaypro 4/84 instead of the II.

[Linked Image]

The story of archiving the Omni 4's disk and ROMs (and the files) can be found here:

https://hackaday.io/project/20151-floppy-fun-backing-up-a-unique-kay-pro-disk

The emulated Omni 4 boots the disk image, but the logic analyzer software obviously complains about the missing i/o board.



This was added yesterday but the only files I can find that were provided were .hex files.
https://github.com/mamedev/mame/commit/6eeda5e1d6359a160164a8d2c654f30c67102c46

I'm looking for the proper images that match the hashes provided with your submission, please.
omni4: Unable to find matching ROM omni4.u34 (f24e8521)
omni4: Unable to find matching ROM omni4.u9 (579665a6)

Thanks




#111079 - 10/16/17 11:40 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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This has been a while in the making, sorry - I've included the wrong files. I think I had to run the hex files through a hex=>bin converter, no further work was done on them

Here's a link - I'll post them on the FTP tonight as well.



https://mega.nz/#!LVxASCQQ!H85i8zeARMf-PRmOeD_TBFCPFaLamFs-I5C0mZpacjM


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#111081 - 10/16/17 12:36 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
My programmer only has a setting for the 8749 ... am I correct in assuming that the 8049 can be read in that setting (the 8049 is ROM instead of EPROM)?


Well, I wouldn't count on it. I don't know what the protocol the MCS-48 family use for reading back the program is, but for Motorola 6805 family, it's completely different for ROM and EPROM parts.

#111084 - 10/16/17 03:08 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Vas, could you please check that dump - my programmer offers the 8048, maybe the program is small enough to fit into the 1st 1K

m5l8049 as i8048


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#111090 - 10/16/17 09:19 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Well, I think we'll have to postpone the Kaypro keyboard until I get a programmer that can read MCS-48 consistently. Prompted by the failure of reading the Kaypro keyboard controller, I re-read the Alphatronic P3's as well, multiple times. Different results every time ... I can get a consistent result for Eproms, but it seems not for the MCUs ... drat!


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#111093 - 10/17/17 03:13 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Just be careful when reading 8048 parts: the voltage for reading 8048 vs 8048AHP vs 8049 parts is different, and using the 8048 voltage (21v on /EA) can damage the later parts (which want 12v on /EA)

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#111094 - 10/17/17 03:24 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
Vas, could you please check that dump - my programmer offers the 8048, maybe the program is small enough to fit into the 1st 1K

m5l8049 as i8048


This looks like it might be the second half of the program with the first half missing.

#111095 - 10/17/17 04:00 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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hmm... You could try dumping it in the i8048 mode, but bending pin p2.2 (pin 23) out of the programmer socket and tie that pin on the mcu to gnd; that should force it to dump the first half of rom instead of the second half.

EDIT: to prevent breaking the pin off of the mcu, it may be easier to plug the mcu into a loose dip40 socket, and bend the pin on the socket sideways and plug the socket into the programmer.

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 10/17/17 04:10 AM.

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#111096 - 10/17/17 06:30 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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LN, does your BP-1200 support the 8049? For standard EPROMs and those MCUs, would the 48pin DIP adapter be sufficient or do you need special adapters for all pin counts?


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#111097 - 10/17/17 07:27 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Bp-1200 does support most intel and nec (and other) 8749 variants; as for dumping 8049 chips, it sometimes works and sometimes does not, but seems to usually work.

If you're looking to purchase one, be warned: the BP-1200 can have a variable number of pin driver cards installed. Each of the cards drives 8 pins, and the unit can have a max of 6 driver cards installed, and needs at least 5 of them to dump the 8748/8749 and other 40 pin (8751 etc) chips. All 6 drivers are required for 42+ pin chips like the 27c8192.
The BP-1400 and BP-1600 I believe should come from factory with all 6 cards installed, and I don't think ever shipped without all 6, but I could be wrong about this.

If you're hunting on ebay, look for BP-1200/48 or the rare BP-1200/240 (which has a special adapter multiplexer 'shield' on it to allow up to 240 pins to be read!); BP-1400 has the adapter built in as well, but the built in adapter came in either 84 pin or 240 pin versions (bp-1400/84 and bp-1400/240 respectively), and can't be easily swapped. The BP-1400/240 and BP-1600 both have support for 240 pins. BP-1600 can do low voltage devices less than 3.3v, while bp-1200 and bp-1400 cannot.

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 10/17/17 07:49 AM.

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#111159 - 10/25/17 08:19 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Here (and on the FTP) is the 8049 keyboard controller dump re-done by TeamE, thanks!

Kaypro 10 keyboard controller (new dump)


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#111162 - 10/26/17 02:41 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
Here (and on the FTP) is the 8049 keyboard controller dump re-done by TeamE, thanks!

Kaypro 10 keyboard controller (new dump)


Dibs on this one, I want an actual emulation task to do.

#111163 - 10/26/17 06:26 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Quote
Dibs on this one, I want an actual emulation task to do.


Yes, but what is a K10 without its harddisk, nudge nudge say no MORE grin


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#111169 - 10/27/17 10:36 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Since Vas is working on the Kaypro keyboard, I'll post some thoughts about this series of machines - I collected a lot of information when I added the Omni 4 logic analyzer.
The designations and specifications for the Kaypros are mix and match and will require some general decisions.

The best source for information on the Kaypro series I found is on the old Walnut Creek CP/M CD-ROM that has an overview of Kaypro machines, mainboards and ROM labels.

http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/Kaypro/KP-VERSN.TXT

If you look at the New 2 and the 1 in this table, they use the same mainboard and ROM. The same ROM was used on other mainboards (K2/MTC and K10/MTC), and other ROMs were used on the same mainboard (K2X, K2/84).

Some machines used the same mainboard revision, but with areas left unpopulated (RTC, harddisk interface, modem).

One of the biggest differences between the different Kaypro machines is the use of single sided or double sided drives with the same mainboard and ROM (K4/later KII), this is not reflected in the driver at the moment. A Kaypro II should not be able to load a double sided disk image.

Before I'll try to compile my search results for the different Kaypro models, I'd like to suggest some changes to the current driver. Whoever's interested in these machines, has contributed to the driver or has information not yet found here, please chime in with our thoughts and insights.


  • The kaypro4a driver should imho be called kaypro484, as those machines were known as Kaypro 4'84, kaypro4a is totally arbitrary.
  • While the earlier Kaypro 4 models had "Kaypro 4" on their cases, the sign on message of CP/M is for "Kaypro IV", so I'd call the driver kayproiv to show that it's a machine of the '83 generation, like the Kaypro II
  • Our current driver has the comment "Kaypro 2x, 4a: floppy not working "No operating system present on this disk". This is due to the fact, that the ROM that is loaded by default is an early Universal ROM (v.2.0) that isn't even present in the table I've linked above. The driver boots the CP/M 2.2u1 (e.g. for the Kaypro 1) fine, but if you try to boot one of the commonly found disks specifically for these machines, they won't boot as those CP/M versions are for the ROM version before the universal ROM (our second ROM). I'd make our current second choice the default, the label of our current default might be wrong. (81-292 vs. 81-292a)
  • Original Kaypro drives were either SS/DD or DS/DD, only third party ROMs supported QD drives. The current driver has QD drives set, which seems wrong.
  • Our driver "knows" that the 4a (4'84) and 2X are basically the same machine ... if the basic motherboard/bios combinations are working and modules for harddisk/rtc/modem are created, any Kaypro model can be emulated ... the question is, whether to offer a base driver that can be customised (SS/DS drives, add modem, add rtc, add harddisk, swap in universal ROM) or create a driver for every machine configuration. I suggest the latter, as our resources to inform the user about his possible choices before or while running the driver are limited. The advantage: If you find a Kaypro 1 bootdisk, you can start it with the Kaypro 1 driver, even if it's internally identical to the "New 2" and could probably run the 2X disk set if you swap in the earlier ROM ... but with the Kaypros, this way lies madness.


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#111170 - 10/27/17 12:33 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Let's get the odd ones out of the way first: Kaypro Robie and Kaypro 4X

Info:
The Robie was dubbed "Darth Vader's lunchbox" for its odd look with the two floppy drives on top of the monitor, and the same guts were also sold in the traditional Kaypro luggable case as model 4X.
What makes the two machines unique are the 5,25" 2.6MB 192TPI floppy drives that didn't catch on. The drives were notorious for diamond dust left over from manufacturing that destroyed the disk media in a short time. The floppy disks were preformatted with a servo track, so you had to buy the right media for the Robie and 4X. Regular Kaypro disks could be read, but not written to.

You can see pictures of the Robie and a floppy disk here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos.asp?t=1&c=278&st=1 The disk label references both the Robie and the 4X
The same page has a picture of the mainboard, and while it's too small to make out part numbers, you can see that the battery is there (=>RTC), the harddisk connector is populated, even though neither the Robie nor the 4X have a harddisk, and the transformer on the top shows that the modem is populated.

Status/Resources:
This thread http://www.verycomputer.com/74_3b99051415a67f2b_1.htm suggests that the mainboard is basically a 4'84 board, but the Walnut Creek CP/M CD list gives it a distinct board number. The Don Maslin collection has two ROM versions and a character generator ROM, all of which are in MAME.

To-Do:
  • Add a 4X driver or inform the user that the machines are really the same
  • Somehow obtain disk images ... maybe by hooking the Robie drive up to a Kryoflux?


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#111171 - 10/27/17 05:06 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Well, the keyboard is added but as I should have anticipated, it exposes problems with other devices in MAME. Oh well, such is life. Now we just need a dump of the earlier 8751-based keyboard sold with the Kaypro II.

#111172 - 10/27/17 05:15 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: Vas Crabb]  
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Originally Posted by Vas Crabb
Well, the keyboard is added but as I should have anticipated, it exposes problems with other devices in MAME. Oh well, such is life. Now we just need a dump of the earlier 8751-based keyboard sold with the Kaypro II.

I'll see what I can do. I should have some NOS keyboards

foo.. they're all 8049s ca. 1984

Last edited by Al Kossow; 10/27/17 05:21 PM.
#111173 - 10/27/17 05:30 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: Al Kossow]  
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Originally Posted by Al Kossow
Originally Posted by Vas Crabb
Well, the keyboard is added but as I should have anticipated, it exposes problems with other devices in MAME. Oh well, such is life. Now we just need a dump of the earlier 8751-based keyboard sold with the Kaypro II.

I'll see what I can do. I should have some NOS keyboards

foo.. they're all 8049s ca. 1984


Robbbert has one, but he doesn't have any hardware for dumping it.

#111176 - 10/27/17 11:13 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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The Kaypro II and IV (the case says "Kaypro 4", but the boot message is "Kaypro IV") belong to the '83 generation of Kaypros.

[Linked Image]

Info:
The Kaypro II uses single sided disks, the IV double sided disks, that's the main distinguishing feature. They're still full height drives, later models used half height. Compared to later machines, they've only got one accessible serial port and a parallel port and run at 2.5MHz. I'm using the info on the following pages for the rest of the models too:
http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/Kaypro/KP-VERSN.TXT
http://www.verycomputer.com/74_3b99051415a67f2b_1.htm
http://sims.durgadas.com/kaypro/kaypromodels.html
http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/Kaypro/Kaypro.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/index.html
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/

Resources/Status:
The first Kaypro II used a distinct motherboard, 81-110, its ROMs are in MAME as 81-149, 81-149b and 81-149c. This disk works well on them: http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/kpii-old.td0
The combination mainboard 81-184 and ROM 81-242 as noted by the Walnut Creek list is not available online. 242 may well be a typo, 81-184 is the much later Kaypro 4'84 mainboard.
The second generation Kaypro II and the IV (or 4'83) machines shared the same motherboard, 81-240. The walnut creek lists ROMs 232 and 232-A, but the mainboard photo above shows 232, and only this is available online. Current MAME correctly has the 81-232 for the Kaypro IV, but not for the II. This disk http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/kpivdsdd.td0 works well on the Kaypro IV driver.

Disk sets:
Kaypro II: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/d/kayproii.zip
Kaypro IV: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/img54306/d/kaypro83.zip, at least some apps for IV

Third party ROMs:
Advent Turbo ROM for '83 models:
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/roms/turbo8334.bin, http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("turbo8334.bin",  0x0000, 0x1000, CRC(908a4c0e) SHA1(6e220479715a812d9116b0927a9ff2792f82b2a7), ROM_BIOS(7) )

The process is (cf. the documentation at the link above): on original ROM format new disk, transfer pip and stat, sysgen new disk (transfer bootable tracks), use advent utilities to alter boot tracks, try to boot, error message claims advent ROM is necessary, reboot with advent ROM. The process fails on the last step on the KII, MAME crashes while trying to select a disk image on the KIV.

Highland Microkit Roadrunner:
http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/kaypro_II_roadrunner_1_5.txt, description at http://retrodepot.net/?p=205
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("kaypro_ii_roadrunner_1_5.bin",  0x0000, 0x1000, CRC(ca11357d) SHA1(8e8a6d6e0d31d1051db9a24601f12a3b4639b3bb), ROM_BIOS(6) )

This ROM originally comes from a KII, but doesn't boot the disk images I have for a KII, boots as a KIV replacement ROM, though, using the disk linked above.

Micro Cornucopia Pro-8 v3.3
http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/pro8-3.rom It's a 4K ROM, so it's for the '83 models.
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("pro8-3.rom",  0x0000, 0x1000, CRC(f2d4c598) SHA1(269b2fddeb98db3e5eba2056ff250dff72b0561e), ROM_BIOS(4) )

Doesn't boot the original (and similar) disk image linked above on the KII, but works with the regular disk in the KIV driver.

To-Do:
  • Block the Kaypro II driver from using double sided disk images
  • Add third party ROMs and be able to create working boot disks within the emulation
  • Add serial port


Extras:
The DK Synergy II synthesizer used a Kaypro II as its companion PC. This guy has a CD image with all his Synergy stuff and a Kaypro archive available on his website:
http://www.dragonslair.ca/synergy.htm, Synergy CD, Kaypro files

Last edited by rfka01; 10/27/17 11:30 PM.

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#111181 - 10/28/17 11:27 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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The Kaypro 10'83

Info:
https://ancientelectronics.wordpress.com/tag/kaypro-10/. The Kaypro 10 series used 10 MB MFM (ST506) harddisks that were connected via a 50 pin connector, an intermediate board with a 40 pin connector and a WD1002-HD0 disk controller. https://ancientelectronics.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/kprot4.jpg

Resources/Status:
The site mentioned above has also a picture of the mainboard, at https://ancientelectronics.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/kprot3.jpg that matches the description in the Walnut Creek list. What sets the '83 machines apart from the later ones is that the hard disk interface sits in the middle of the mainboard, a wide cable running over to the side. Later mainboards move that connector to the side of the board. MAME's second BIOS entry, 81-188.u42, is the one that goes with the Kaypro 10'83, 81-277 is not mentioned in the list at all. The other two are from Kaypro 10'84 machines.MAME doesn't emulate the hard disk controller yet, so formatting and restoring a disk set can't be tested. The machine has two accessible serial ports, one parallel port, no RTC or modem.

Disk set:
ftp://ftp.mrynet.com/pub/os/Kaypro/Public-Images/k10hald.zip
According to http://sims.durgadas.com/kaypro/kaypromodels.html, the CP/M version to match the 81-188 ROM is the "H" version, and this disk set boots on our driver using this ROM. Here is an "F" disk set that also boots with the 81-188 ROM in our driver.

Third party ROMs:
Advent Turbo ROM:
The 8K Advent Turbo ROM http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/trom34.rom is used on all Kaypro 10 machines, requiring an adapter for the 10'83 generation, it's the same ROM that is also used in the '84 generation non-Kaypro 10 machines. The Turborom provides a way to use the harddisk more efficiently, requiring reformatting of the drive.
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("trom34.rom",   0x0000, 0x2000, CRC(0ec6d39a) SHA1(8c2a92b8642e144452c28300bf50a00a11a060cd), ROM_BIOS(6) )

I had an archive with two disk images for the Kaypro 10 Turbo ROM stashed away, the disks boot in our Kaypro 10 emulation with the 8K Turbo ROM: https://mega.nz/#!6FhFQCRA!nJuZb3QkwJp1IELUcnu5_eboJUvLKQ_iQOpKjd6glt8

KayPlus ROM:
The '83 KayPlus ROM http://www.microcodeconsulting.com/pub/z80/kplus83.rom is supposed to work on the 10'83, but only shows a blank screen in our driver.
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("kplus83.rom",  0x0000, 0x2000, CRC(5e9b817d) SHA1(26ea875ee3659a964cbded4ed0c82a3af42db64b), ROM_BIOS(8) )

http://www.microcodeconsulting.com/z80/kayplus.htm

To-Do:
  • Emulate the WD1002 harddisk controller
  • Create a Kaypro 10'83 driver offering the 81-188, maybe the 81-277 and the KayPlus '83 ROM
  • Find out which (if any) of the Microcornucopia ROMs works in a K10


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#111186 - 10/28/17 05:59 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: Vas Crabb]  
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Originally Posted by Vas Crabb
Originally Posted by Al Kossow
Originally Posted by Vas Crabb
Well, the keyboard is added but as I should have anticipated, it exposes problems with other devices in MAME. Oh well, such is life. Now we just need a dump of the earlier 8751-based keyboard sold with the Kaypro II.

I'll see what I can do. I should have some NOS keyboards

foo.. they're all 8049s ca. 1984


Robbbert has one, but he doesn't have any hardware for dumping it.


I looked at every kb I had handy, and they all have 8049s
Which model has the 8751? I dumped a Kaypro II one with the blue keys on the keypad, and it's identical
Every kb I looked at were Maxiswitch

#111192 - 10/29/17 06:03 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Hmm ... regarding the keyboard controller I've found two pages that might be relevant: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-19167.html In the course of the discussion there, an early Kaypro II keyboard is mentioned. It uses an 8049 but is setup to use an external ROM, probably to use up old parts.
This thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0 has pictures of a Kaypro II keyboard and states that it uses SMK J-M0404 switches. Unfortunately the pictures are just too small to make out the type of the keyboard MCU. So if Al's keyboards are Maxiswitch and use 8049's it's possible that the one on the geekhack forum uses an 8751. Anyone here active in the geekhack forum so they could ask?


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#111193 - 10/29/17 06:46 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
Hmm ... regarding the keyboard controller I've found two pages that might be relevant: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-19167.html In the course of the discussion there, an early Kaypro II keyboard is mentioned. It uses an 8049 but is setup to use an external ROM, probably to use up old parts.
This thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=92067.0 has pictures of a Kaypro II keyboard and states that it uses SMK J-M0404 switches. Unfortunately the pictures are just too small to make out the type of the keyboard MCU. So if Al's keyboards are Maxiswitch and use 8049's it's possible that the one on the geekhack forum uses an 8751. Anyone here active in the geekhack forum so they could ask?


The geekhack keyboard is Keytronics capacitive
SMK keyboards use an 8049. I just added some pictures from an ebay sale which shows one
Interestingly, it has the same aluminum foil as the three that I have. I need to shoot a picture of
the kb so you can see the uCtlr
I just about hurled when I saw it was butchered into a USB l33t kb.

Last edited by Al Kossow; 10/29/17 08:22 PM.
#111194 - 10/29/17 07:13 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Al, do you have a Kaypro Robie with the matching disk set? What are the chances that they could be imaged by connecting one of the Robie's drives to a Kryoflux?


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#111195 - 10/29/17 08:20 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01
Al, do you have a Kaypro Robie with the matching disk set? What are the chances that they could be imaged by connecting one of the Robie's drives to a Kryoflux?


CHM has Don Maslin's Robie. We may have media in the disks I brought back from his storage unit.
I have a bunch of the drives so it isn't necessary to remove one from the machine. I have no idea when I'd have
time to look for the diskettes, though. I have about 100 boxes of other media on five pallets I'm dealing with right now.

#111196 - 10/29/17 08:29 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks for the Info! I thought I'd ask since I was shocked to learn that those drives were such a one way street and are sometimes actively harming the media.


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#111202 - 10/31/17 10:54 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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I was going to post the info on the next Kaypro model, the Kaypro 10 (or 10'84) when I noticed that the Kaypros that have the universal ROMs 81-292 and 81-478a in MAME (Kaypro 2x, kaypro 4a and kaypro10) no longer boot CP/M 2.2u1, contradicting what I had said in post Post111169.

Until MAME 0.190 the Universal ROM disks could be booted, starting with 0.191 you get a "BDOS Err. on A: Select" message.

The following disks can be used to test:

Kaypro 10 reload disk
Kaypro 1 system disk

Another issue that's relevant to the Kaypro emulation is the rejection of many Kaypro disk images. Examples are the Kaypro 10 "G" reload set and a second Kaypro 10 "U" boot disk on http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/.

If you try to mount those images, MAME quits on you with the error message

Quote
Fatal error: Incorrect layout on track 0 head 0, expected_size=50000, current_size=88368


I tried to write back the images to physical media and re-dumping in IMD, but the error persists.


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#111203 - 10/31/17 01:15 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted by rfka01

Another issue that's relevant to the Kaypro emulation is the rejection of many Kaypro disk images. Examples are the Kaypro 10 "G" reload set and a second Kaypro 10 "U" boot disk on http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/.

If you try to mount those images, MAME quits on you with the error message

Quote
Fatal error: Incorrect layout on track 0 head 0, expected_size=50000, current_size=88368


I tried to write back the images to physical media and re-dumping in IMD, but the error persists.

These have 10 sectors per side on a DSDD floppy. Our image loaders use a default gap3 size which may be too big for these.

#111204 - 10/31/17 02:14 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Quote
These have 10 sectors per side on a DSDD floppy. Our image loaders use a default gap3 size which may be too big for these.


22disk has these definitions for Kaypro disks, don't know if they can be translated into MAME formats:

Code
BEGIN KAY1  Kaypro II/2 - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 40 SIDES 1 SECTORS 10,512 SKEW 4
SIDE1 0 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
BSH 3 BLM 7 EXM 0 DSM 194 DRM 63 AL0 0F0H AL1 0 OFS 1
END 

BEGIN KAY2  Kaypro 2X/4/10 - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 40 SIDES 2 SECTORS 10,512 SKEW 4
SIDE1 0 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 0 10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19
ORDER SIDES 
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 1 DSM 196 DRM 63 AL0 0C0H AL1 0 OFS 1
END 

BEGIN KAY3  Kaypro 2X/4/10 (Alternate) - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 40 SIDES 2 SECTORS 10,512 SKEW 4
SIDE1 0 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 1 10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19
ORDER SIDES 
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 1 DSM 196 DRM 63 AL0 0C0H AL1 0 OFS 1
END 

BEGIN KAY4  Kaypro, Pro-8 ROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 512 x 10
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 80 SIDES 2 SECTORS 10,512 SKEW 4
SIDE1 0 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 0 20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29
ORDER SIDES 
BSH 5 BLM 31 EXM 3 DSM 196 DRM 95 AL0 080H AL1 0 OFS 2
END 

BEGIN KAY5  Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 40 SIDES 2 SECTORS 5,1024 SKEW 2
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5
SIDE2 1 11,12,13,14,15
ORDER SIDES 
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 1 DSM 195 DRM 255 AL0 0F0H AL1 0 OFS 2
END 

BEGIN KAY6  Kaypro Advent TurboROM - SSDD 48 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 40 SIDES 1 SECTORS 5,1024 SKEW 2
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5
BSH 3 BLM 7 EXM 0 DSM 185 DRM 31 AL0 0C0H AL1 0 OFS 3
END 

BEGIN KAY7  Kaypro Advent TurboROM - DSDD 96 tpi 5.25" - 1024 x 5
DENSITY MFM ,LOW 
CYLINDERS 80 SIDES 2 SECTORS 5,1024 SKEW 2
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5
SIDE2 1 21,22,23,24,25
ORDER SIDES 
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 0 DSM 395 DRM 255 AL0 0F0H AL1 0 OFS 2
END 


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#111205 - 10/31/17 05:58 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Kaypro 10 (or 10'84)

Info:
Despite the use of a new mainboard starting in 1984, the Kaypro 10 was still a 64K Z80 CP/M machine, with a 10MB harddisk and one DS/DD floppy disk drive, two accessible serial and one parallel port. Starting with the 1984 generation, all Kaypros offered crude semi-graphics, moved the harddrive connector to the side of the mainboard and made room for a real time clock and battery as well as an on board modem that used a little transformer. A fully decked out Kaypro 10, as they were sold towards the end of the lifespan of the model, was called Kaypro 10 MTC. Despite different model numbers, the mainboards look very similar. Sharkpuncher's board from page 1 of this thread represents the earlier type, 81-181, my machine has the last board that was used in the Kaypro 10's, 81-582. I can be fairly certain, because I kept the original ROM, 81-478a after I swapped it for a Turbo ROM.

[Linked Image]

Resources/Status:
81-302 is the default ROM in Mame, the next two revisions used 82-302c which is not yet in MAME. If you compare the pictures of Sharkpunchers K10 mainboard and mine, it looks like they just used the newer Universal ROM without changes to the board, but this is just from a glance. This discussion seems to support this notion: http://mdfs.net/Archive/info-cpm/1990/02/13/184752.htm. 81-302 and 81-302c boot the first disks of the "F" and "H" reload sets linked below. Reload set "G" has issues of its own (cf. my previous post and crayzc's answer), and I haven't found a complete "U" set, just the boot disks.
Unto Mame 0.190, the Kaypro 10 with the 81-482a would boot a disk with the CP/M 2.2u1, "U" reload disk, but since then it starts booting and shows a "BDOS Err. on A: Select" message. Due to the missing WD1002 emulation, restoring to hard disk can't be tested yet.

Disk sets:
Kaypro 10 reload disk set "H"
Kaypro 10 reload disk set "F"

Third Party ROMs:
Advent Turbo ROM:
See Kaypro 10'83

KayPlus '84:
This ROM seems to work in MAME, booting a disk that is available on http://www.nightfallcrew.com/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=564. Unfortunately the screen is filled with vertical stripes, so it's clearly unhappy about something in our Kaypro 10 driver.
[Linked Image]
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("kplus84.rom",  0x0000, 0x2000, CRC(4551905a) SHA1(48f0964edfad05b214810ae5595638245c30e5c0), ROM_BIOS(5) )



To-Do:
  • Add ROM revision 81-302c
  • Emulate WD1002-HD0 harddisk controller
  • Find complete "U" reload disk set
  • Find out which Microcornucopia ROM is suitable for a K10'84


Addendum to Kaypro 10'83:
The Walnut Creek list mentions a CP/M 2.2D for the K10'83 but I couldn't find disk images for it.

Last edited by rfka01; 10/31/17 06:07 PM.

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#111206 - 11/01/17 12:08 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Kaypro 2'84, Kaypro 4'84, Kaypro New 2, Kaypro 2X, Kaypro 1

Compared to the '83 models, the '84 ones supported rudimentary graphics via ASCII graphics characters. This article explains how it works on the Kaypros: http://skookumpete.com/KayproGraphics.htm

Info:
From 1984 on, the Kaypros were very similar, the main differences being single or double sided drives (all half height), availability of modem and/or RTC and the software package. One parallel and two accessible serial ports were included in all machines.
  • 2'84: two SS/DD floppies, two accessible serial ports
  • 4'84: two DS/DD floppies, RTC, modem, later renamed 2X or 2X MTC,
  • 2X: like 4'84, but no modem or RTC (old 2X), later re-introduced as the Kaypro 1
  • New 2: one DS/DD floppy, no modem or RTC


Resources/Status:
2'84, 4'84 and original 2X used ROM 81-292A which is the second choice in the current 2X driver. This disk image seems to be mislabled, as it's single sided and therefore probably came from a 2'84 rather than a New 2. The first disk from the "F" disk set for the 4'84 linked to below works fine, as do the "G" version disks labeled for this ROM version on http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/disks/kaypro/
2X (MTC), New 2 and 1 used ROM 81-478A (Universal ROM v2.01). 81-292, which is the default ROM in the current 2X driver is Universal ROM v2.00. The Kaypro 1 disk can be used to test these driver/ROM combinations. As with the Kaypro 10 driver, booting worked up to Mame 0.190, currently those are displaying a CP/M BDOS error.

Disk sets:
CP/M 2.2F disk set for the Kaypro 4'84
Disk set for the 2X, unfortunately extracted files rather than disk images
Original disk for the Kaypro 1

Third party ROMs:
Advent Turbo ROM:
See Kaypro 10'83 ... I haven't been able to make the disks for the Turbo ROM in the emulated machine.

KayPlus '84
See Kaypro 10'84

Kaypro 4/84 Micro Cornucopia Super MAX v2.7
This ROM boots the original CP/M variants as well as the custom disk.

Kaypro Micro Cornucopia Pro-8 v5 (4/84?)

See the Super MAX ROM above, file is identical to http://www.retroarchive.org/maslin/roms/kaypro/pro8-5.rom
Code
	ROMX_LOAD("pro884v5.rom",  0x0000, 0x2000, CRC(fe0051b1) SHA1(cac429154d40e21174ae05ceb0017b62473cdebd), ROM_BIOS(5) )


Handyman
The Handyman was more than just a ROM replacement,a little add-on board that implemented ROM resident utilities like a calendar, a screenshot utility, a notepad and others. Here's an ad for it: https://archive.org/stream/PROFILES...umber_11_1986-06_Kaypro_Corp_US_djvu.txt Unfortunately I'm not the only one wondering how to conjure up the utilities, it seems no one can remember the relevant keystrokes.
Code
	ROM_LOAD("handyman",   0x0000, 0x8000, CRC(f020d82c) SHA1(576a6608270d4ec7cf814c9de46ecf4e2869d30a) )


To-Do:
  • Add missing third party ROMs, find out Handyman keystrokes
  • Add missing models, 2'84 can only use single sided disks
  • Add RTC and/or modem as options or per model
  • Restore Universal ROM models to boot again


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#111207 - 11/01/17 03:11 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: crazyc]  
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Originally Posted by crazyc
These have 10 sectors per side on a DSDD floppy. Our image loaders use a default gap3 size which may be too big for these.

Looks like the actual problem here is that they're being loaded as FM images rather than MFM. TD02IMD and HxC identify them as correctly as MFM but Sydex's own TDCHECK says they're FM. There seem to be two bits in the header that may indicate FM or MFM, maybe for different versions of teledisk?

Edit: TD02IMD says it's FM too..

Last edited by crazyc; 11/01/17 03:21 AM.
#111212 - 11/01/17 05:47 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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@crazyc, HxC seems to be the solution. I couldn't write back the images or convert the images without defaulting to FM. If you convert the "G" set using the HxC Floppy emulator, they work in MAME - but they're not 100% original as Don Maslin has left a comment file on the boot disk. k10urlod.td0 can be mounted after conversion, but does not become bootable. Its contents are the same as k10u-rld.td0, so that can be used instead.

While researching all things Kaypro, I came across Doug Miller's "Virtual Kaypro" emulator at http://sims.durgadas.com/kaypro/kaypro.html He's currently trying to get approved for this forum.

[Linked Image]

Among the things that caught my interest were a working WD1002-HD0 implementation and disk images for the 2.7MB Robie/4X floppies, albeit reconstructed in the Virtual Kaypro. Maybe they could be used as standins until real disks are captured. His files are at http://sebhc.durgadas.com/kaypro/

He hasn't included a copyright with his Kaypro files, but wrote to me in an email that he's offering the code as

Quote
Copyright (c) 2011,2017 Douglas Miller
durgadas311@gmail.com

Permission to modify and/or redistribute is granted provided
no fee is charged, original copyright messages are included,
and modifications are submitted back to original author.


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#111213 - 11/01/17 06:30 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Java. *brrrrrrr*.

#111218 - 11/01/17 10:34 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Kaypro II plus 88 and Kaypro 4'84 plus 88

The plus 88 models featured factory mounted SWP CoPower 88 boards that could also be installed as third party add-ons. They complimented the Kaypro's Z80 and 64K RAM with an 8088 and 128K or 256K RAM. The extra RAM could be used as a ramdisk from CP/M-80 or as part of the 8088 system to run specially adapted versions of MS-DOS and CP/M-86 on the CoPower. A Kaypro 4'84 plus 88 is pictured here. Earlier boards were system specific, later boards were suitable for
Quote
Kaypro II, 4, 4/84, 10; Xerox 820 II; Bigboard; ATR8000; Zorba; Osborne.
- at least their ad says so. There were also CoPower + boards with 1MB of RAM available.

Resources/Status:
The System Loader Disk and CoPower 88 MS-DOS disk are available in the Don Maslin archives, as is a CoPower ROM that's already in MAME.

If you try to boot the CP/M system loader disk (or even a regular CP/M disk) in the kaypro4p88 driver, MAME shows the first "K", then quits with this error:

Code
-----------------------------------------------------
Exception at EIP=00000000007c0f5f (kaypro_state::kaypro4_pio_system_w(address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)+0x017f): ACCESS VIOLATION
While attempting to read memory at 00000000000006cc
-----------------------------------------------------
RAX=0000000000000000 RBX=000000001e308fc0 RCX=000000001e2dfe50 RDX=0000000000000000
RSI=0000000000000000 RDI=0000000000000008 RBP=000000001bf48200 RSP=000000001bf48180
 R8=0000000000000000  R9=c6a4a7935bd1e995 R10=000000001e2fb0a0 R11=000000001bf480d0
R12=0000000000000000 R13=0000000000000000 R14=00000000000000d3 R15=0000000026009d50
-----------------------------------------------------
Stack crawl:
  000000001bf48160: 00000000007c0f5f (kaypro_state::kaypro4_pio_system_w(address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)+0x017f)
  000000001bf48240: 00000000021ee21f (devcb_write_base::write8_adapter(address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned long long, unsigned long long)+0x00af)
  000000001bf48350: 0000000001d623c7 (z80pio_device::write_alt(address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char)+0x0a97)
  000000001bf483a0: 00000000036dd2f4 (delegate_base<void, address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char>::operator()(address_space&, unsigned int, unsigned char, unsigned char) const+0x0054)
  000000001bf48400: 000000000316017e (address_space_specific<unsigned char, (endianness_t)0, false>::write_byte(unsigned int, unsigned char)+0x008e)
  000000001bf48450: 0000000002842615 (z80_device::op_d3()+0x0065)
  000000001bf484e0: 0000000001a8f36c (z80_device::execute_run()+0x084c)
  000000001bf485a0: 00000000022d9320 (device_scheduler::timeslice()+0x04d0)
  000000001bf486a0: 0000000002298858 (running_machine::run(bool)+0x0408)
  000000001bf4f250: 0000000000e9f173 (mame_machine_manager::execute()+0x01e3)
  000000001bf4f4f0: 0000000000f109d9 (cli_frontend::start_execution(mame_machine_manager*, std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > > > const&)+0x03f9)
  000000001bf4f680: 0000000000f10e55 (cli_frontend::execute(std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > > >&)+0x0045)
  000000001bf4f6e0: 0000000000e9d20a (emulator_info::start_frontend(emu_options&, osd_interface&, std::vector<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >, std::allocator<std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > > >&)+0x002a)
  000000001bf4fe50: 0000000004163c4d (main+0x013d)
  000000001bf4ff20: 00000000004013f8 (__tmainCRTStartup+0x0248)
  000000001bf4ff50: 000000000040151b (mainCRTStartup+0x001b)
  000000001bf4ff80: 00007ffd92072774 (BaseThreadInitThunk+0x0014)
  000000001bf4ffd0: 00007ffd94b70d51 (RtlUserThreadStart+0x0021)
Segmentation fault


The same disk boots fine in the 2X driver, running the msdos.com program fails, of course, due to the missing "hardware".

[Linked Image]

Reading the file ramdisk.doc on that same disk could give us a clue on the copower's properties:

[Linked Image]


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#111219 - 11/02/17 07:53 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: R. Belmont]  
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Originally Posted by R. Belmont
Java. *brrrrrrr*.


It's C++ with garbage collection, reflection, and some slightly different keywords. A capable programmer should have no problem porting between the two.

#111220 - 11/02/17 11:20 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: Just Desserts]  
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I've got no defense for using JAVA, but it does make the GUI more portable and I found the GUI easier to implement.

That said, I can help as needed. I'll have to check with my current employer to see if I can actually contribute code (the licensing of MAME may be an issue, if it is too close to GPL). But I can at least explain what my code does and provide my understanding of the hardware and Kaypro code.

Regarding the co-processor add-on, I do have a version of CP/M-Plus that I ran on a hacked-up Kaypro 2X that could probably be ported to use the extra memory - unless that memory cannot be bank switched into the Z80 address space.

Let me know how I can help,
Doug

#111221 - 11/02/17 01:05 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Individual MAME components are mostly BSD; the project as a whole is GPLv2 because we have some GPL components. In general we've been reducing reliance on GPL code where possible though.

#111222 - 11/02/17 05:08 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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random roms for unknown kaypro computers, to be checked, per Robbberts comment in the drivers ...

x.bin
That file comes from here. It's only 4095 bytes, so I've padded it with 0x00. It's booting e.g. the Kaypro 10 "G" reload disk, the sign on message is

[Linked Image]

81-x015.rom
If you plop this ROM into the Kaypro 2X driver, you get this picture. The ROM wants a "U" CP/M version, but this displays a BDOS error at the moment.
[Linked Image]

rom19ee.bin
This is from the same source as x.bin. This ROM also needs padding to 4096 bytes, it's almost identical to the default Kaypro 10 ROM.
[Linked Image]


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#111223 - 11/02/17 07:56 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Welcome, Doug! I hope your employer's allows you to contribute directly.
Robert


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#111224 - 11/02/17 09:38 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Just one cautionary note about Kaypro 10, in case it's not already known. There are two different harddisk formats that I know of, as hard-coded into the ROM (BIOS) code. These formats are not compatible and I know of no upgrade strategy (let alone a downgrade one). So if you have a working harddisk image on the original 10 (e.g. ROM 81-302c), then update the ROM to the Universal ROM (81-478a) you will lose your harddisk data - possibly permanently (depending on if anything tries to write).

I've tried to pull together some data on various Kaypro models, ROMs, and CP/M versions here: http://sims.durgadas.com/kaypro/kaypromodels.html. I can't guarantee it is 100% correct or complete, but it is based on experimentation with available ROM and CP/M images.

#111241 - 11/08/17 10:29 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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I have gotten cleared to view the source code and contribute to MAME. I still won't be able to dedicate much time to it for at least a month, but could start to get oriented. I did not see an obvious link to the source code, where is the repository? Any high-level introduction available, for both MAME as well as the Kaypro 10 components?

Thanks,

#111242 - 11/08/17 10:47 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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#111243 - 11/08/17 11:56 PM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks. got that forked/cloned. I presume S.O.P. is to commit changes to my fork and then generate a pull request.

How do I build a Kaypro 4/84? I was trying SUBTARGET= but there does not seem to be much in the way of subtargets - or else I'm not doing that right.

#111244 - 11/09/17 12:01 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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Code
make SUBTARGET=kaypro SOURCES=src/mame/drivers/kaypro.cpp


If you specify SOURCES it dynamically generates the subtarget for you.

#111245 - 11/09/17 01:41 AM Re: Kaypro 10 [Re: rfka01]  
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OK, got something to build. Now just need to figure out how to configure machine. I've got ROM and diskette images, but will have to learn how to get those selected. I'll spend more time on the documents. RTFM

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