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#79452 - 05/22/12 09:11 PM ITT 3030  
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I've taken apart a few machines to send ICs to a guy who'll try to read as many of them as possible.

I've used this opportunity to take a few more pictures, and in some cases re-read eproms.

The ITT 3030, a Z80 machine, was on the old "ROMs wanted" list ... unfortunately mine is not functional at the moment.

This archive contains a few teledisk images, the character and boot roms, the docs I have and a few pictures.

ITT3030

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#79466 - 05/23/12 06:32 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Hi, what kind of ic's are they?

If I can read them and you don't find anyone nearer, I can read them for you and return them. That is, if you don't mind sending them to Spain wink

Originally Posted By rfka01
I've taken apart a few machines to send ICs to a guy who'll try to read as many of them as possible.

I've used this opportunity to take a few more pictures, and in some cases re-read eproms.

The ITT 3030, a Z80 machine, was on the old "ROMs wanted" list ... unfortunately mine is not functional at the moment.

This archive contains a few teledisk images, the character and boot roms, the docs I have and a few pictures.

ITT3030

Robert

#79467 - 05/23/12 06:35 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I've taken apart the machines from the "Requirements" thread, they're controller chips with internal roms like the 8741. Thanks for your offer, I'll contact you if he has any problems or ICs remain unread.

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#79679 - 05/28/12 09:02 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Andreas, who's contributed to the M20 emulation progress, has dumped some more ICs from other PCs which I'm posting in the appropriate threads:

This archive has been updated with the contents of the 8741AD graphics chip:

ITT3030

To my best knowledge now all code should have been dumped.

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#79758 - 05/31/12 06:29 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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This archive

ITT 3030 peripheral ICs

contains datasheets on the MK3886 Z80 combo chip and the VTAC 5027/TMS 9927 video controller used in the ITT 3030.

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#79836 - 06/03/12 06:14 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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This critter's running again ... I couldn't take no for an answer and poked around a bit ... the keyboard cable (it's fixed to the main case) had come just loose enough to malfunction.

Robert


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#79856 - 06/04/12 02:37 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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If you could provide info what big IC's are on board so I could find out what can be mapped where in memory map.

#79860 - 06/04/12 04:24 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Hi Micko,
the system uses the Z80 PIO, a D8741 for keyboard, a character EPROM, 256KB of RAM (1 page on the CPU card, 8 on a daughter card), a MK3886 for serial I/O, 256 bytes of shared RAM, 2 timers and interrupt control, a WD1791 floppy controller and a VTAC 5027/TMS 9927 Video controller.

I'm doing a quick translation from the system and user manuals that will contain a memory map.

Robert

Last edited by rfka01; 06/04/12 05:10 PM.

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#79862 - 06/04/12 04:55 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks, that would be great. It's faster that way smile Also will probably first do it using old wd17xx core, to see how it boots and all and then add TD0 support for new style floppy.

#79878 - 06/04/12 07:51 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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OK ... here are the user and technical manual in German again, but I've added a partial translation of the parts that seemed most important to me.

There's more on the MK3886 and the 5027/9927 if needed - I don't know if those are emulated yet.

ITT 3030 manuals with partial translation

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#79882 - 06/04/12 08:32 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Once the floppy controller is hooked up and anyone is attempting to boot:

The screen will remain blank, and the machine will just sit there until you press "b" for boot.

Robert


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#79892 - 06/05/12 12:07 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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thanks for this, very helpfull.

#79914 - 06/06/12 10:10 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I went through the technical manual again to understand the actual memory map better, how RAM and ROM interact. I think this should be correct, although I have no idea how to put it into software ;-)

I also made a table of the I/O ports, although I'm not sure if that's generic Z80 stuff or machine specific.

The video chip used is already in /src/emu/video/tms9927.c

ITT 3030 Memory and Port Map

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#80005 - 06/11/12 08:31 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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While sorting through stuff in my basement whistle I found a pile of paper which turned out to be more system information on the ITT 3030.

ITT 3030 Technical Information

As this is a rather large PDF file, I've extracted the first two pages, which are an English data sheet about the elusive MK3886 Z80 combo chip.

MK 3886 data sheet

Robert

Last edited by rfka01; 06/11/12 11:26 AM.

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#80006 - 06/11/12 08:46 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Both links are the same.

#80009 - 06/11/12 11:27 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks, Robbbert ... Link is edited.

Robert


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#89448 - 07/07/13 01:57 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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This appears to be the disk definition for the 3030's odd 70 track format (560kB) for the 22DISK program:

BEGIN ITT3 Sel ITT 3030 - 70 Tracks 560 kB
DENSITY MFM,LOW
CYLINDERS 70
SIDES 2
SECTORS 16,256
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16
SIDE2 1 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16
ORDER EAGLE
LABEL ITT3030
BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 0 DSM 271 DRM 127 AL0 192 AL1 0 OFS 4
END

This is from this old post:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.cpm/PwQ7VxI-_L4

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#91656 - 11/27/13 09:35 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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In addition to the above post, this is the Anadisk analysis of the ITT3030's 70 track 560K disk format.

You can see noise from an older format starting with track 70.



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#91657 - 11/27/13 09:41 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I copied the floppy parts from the Kaypro driver over to the ITT3030 driver and created a custom format in lib/formats ... and lo and behold, something's happening. The message means "Floppy not ready"

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/itt3030_1.JPG

I've submitted this patch to Micko (he created the skeleton) for review and (maybe) publishing.

Last edited by rfka01; 11/27/13 09:47 PM.

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#91658 - 11/27/13 09:50 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Here are pictures of all the boards present in my ITT3030.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/itt3030_pix.zip

I've added the Layouts as ASCII graphics to the driver file.

The next steps would probably be to connect a keyboard and specify the memory and IO layout. As there's a 256K card installed, bank switching is involved.

The manuals are in German, but I can look up and find information for any kind soul who's willing to undertake this task smile - I can't find other drivers to model this upon.

Robert


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#91752 - 12/02/13 11:34 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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ITT3030 driver attempts

Here are the changes to the driver to produce the result in the above post.

Robert


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#91803 - 12/05/13 09:54 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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ITT3030 memory and port map

Write-up of memory map and memory selection

The system I have has the Z80 CPU card and the 256K memory expansion = 4 banks with 64K

One thing that puzzles me is that the Boot V1.2 ROM has 2K ... but the manual speaks of 4K as the ROM region on the CPU board.

Last edited by rfka01; 12/05/13 10:44 PM.

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#91804 - 12/06/13 02:38 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I hooked up the crt5027, fixed up the vblank read to be correct, and checked in the changes. I guess the ROM is strictly a boot loader and we need a disk to boot in order to see it try and bank switch stuff? I also added the bank switching.

Regarding the ROM region size, it's likely the 2K ROM is mirrored once to fill the 4K space.

What's the port 34 "Loupe"? In English that's normally a small magnifying lens used by jewelers. I have no idea what that would mean on a 1980s computer ;-)

Last edited by R. Belmont; 12/06/13 04:22 AM.
#91814 - 12/06/13 07:18 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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RB, cool, thanks! I'll look over the Loupe issue later (I think it magnifies a region of the screen).

Go to the first post of this thread to find disk images for the machine smile

We'll need some sort of keyboard, because on a real ITT3030 the screen is blank until you press "b" for boot.

Robert

Last edited by rfka01; 12/06/13 07:28 AM.

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#91815 - 12/06/13 07:25 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Ah yes, "loupe" means, that by writing to port 34H the screen is magnified. Setting bit 0 to "1" starts the magnification, "0" cancels it.

From the manual: Every character is displayed in double size. The multiplexer writes every line and every dot in the character generator twice.
Important: The loupe affects the whole screen, not only single characters That means that the 80x24 character display is reduced to 40x12.


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#91861 - 12/09/13 03:15 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Question: what's the layout of the keyboard that goes with our 8741 dump? Either a photo or the page number of the correct one from the "ITT 3030 Technical Reference.pdf" would be great smile

#91863 - 12/09/13 07:25 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: R. Belmont]  
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RB ... my machine has an English keyboard that has little stickers with the Umlauts added to it by hand, so I guess it's the German keyboard ROM on the pcb.

That would mean, the ROM is for the keyboard on pages 59-63, the actual keyboard is the one from pages 64-67.

I'll reassemble the machine tonight and check.

Robert


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#91864 - 12/09/13 08:51 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Wouldn't only the physical layout matter for the keyboard MCU, i.e. ISO/ANSI/JIS? Mapping to characters is a function of the computer, and keycaps are just printed.

#91865 - 12/09/13 01:16 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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This isn't a PC, so I'm not making any assumptions.

#91866 - 12/09/13 02:03 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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It's an English keyboard, so pages 64-67 should apply. I assume there must be an utility to switch to a German layout, otherwise the stickers wouldn't make sense.


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#91867 - 12/09/13 02:42 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Great. What are the 2 keys to the right of ESC? The manual shows them as R in a circle and CL in a circle, which I'm not familiar with.

#91868 - 12/09/13 03:37 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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#91869 - 12/09/13 03:44 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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No, it's not the registered trademark R-in-a-circle, but it's similar.

#91870 - 12/09/13 04:01 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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R-in-a-circle produces " unshifted and shifted, and ^B with CTRL

CL-in-a-circle produces ^D and is not affected bei either Shift or CTRL


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#91871 - 12/09/13 04:25 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Ok, that's suitably odd, but easy enough to emulate I guess smile

#91872 - 12/09/13 04:28 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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If we're ever in need for a new name for MESS, "suitably odd" would describe the whole thing perfectly. It could even be shortened to "SOD" ... smile

SOD the Emulator


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#91874 - 12/09/13 11:03 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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lol SOD (Soft On Demand) is also the name of a Japanese adult video house that makes "suitably odd" videos, largely marketed to women

#91875 - 12/10/13 05:22 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: Matty]  
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On the other hand, SOD (Symphony of Destruction) is a Swedish game project (Mälardalens University).

#91877 - 12/10/13 08:37 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Can't hurt to have more SODs smile

#91881 - 12/11/13 03:49 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Keyboard reading is preliminarily hooked up. I don't entirely understand how the 8041 talks to the Z80 and vice-versa; the schematics seem to be missing some detail there vs. what the code on the 8041 is trying to do.

Anyway, even with the .TD0 images supplied in -flop1 it hangs reading a WD17xx register after the (now rather long) delay loop at the start rather than showing the error message noted earlier.

#91886 - 12/11/13 07:37 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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RB, great, thanks once again. Watching you flesh out the driver is a great education in itself.

A few observations / thoughts:

- When I call up the internal menu, e.g. to select a disk image, the system feels terribly sluggish compared with other emulated systems. It often takes several keypresses to accept a new image, return to the system et al. It's obviously trying very hard to do something. I only copy/pasted the floppy portion over, so there are bound to be errors which might account for this.

- The same goes for the disk format, earlier in this thread I posted the ANADISK analysis and the 22disk parameters for that particular format, so it would be great if you could cross-check these with what I entered into the 3030 files in MESS as I don't fully understand all the parameters.

- I'll go through the manuals again to provide additional details of the keyboard connection, maybe there's something.

- Tonight I'll send you another disk image, complete with a screen shot of the actual system booting this disk so we have a documented behaviour.

Robert


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#91888 - 12/11/13 12:29 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I have collated information from the various manuals that seems relevant towards keyboard and floppy emulation.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030%20Keyboard%20-%20Memory%20-%20Floppy.pdf

I find it hard to distinguish between stuff that the OS has to handle and stuff that has to be set up in emulation.

Robert


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#91891 - 12/11/13 01:12 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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The driver's not doing anything "very hard" unless you have a very, very slow PC (Pentium 4 class or below). I get 2000% speed when I unthrottle the driver smile

#91892 - 12/11/13 02:24 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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AMD FX-8350 eight core ... smile


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#91893 - 12/11/13 05:38 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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OK ... the video quality is ... debatable, but you can see dimly what this disk image boots into. When you switch the machine on, the first disk drive does a seek marathon not unlike the Apple II drives, then, if you press "b" the machine boots.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/3030MAST.TD0

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030%20boot.MOV


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#91899 - 12/11/13 08:10 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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So as far as I can tell, there's basically no info in the manuals about what the STAT0-2 and 3-5 bits mean in 35H.

For the bit 7 BLank I guess that's both horizontal and vertical sync, and bit 6 VSYN is vertical sync only?

#91900 - 12/11/13 08:51 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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OK ... here's what I found:

IN 35H

Bit 6 1, if the vertical blanking interval is reached
Bit 7 1, if the horizontal (line-) or vertical blanking
interval is reached

It looks as if the relevant pages for the STAT0-5 bits are missing ... sections 5.2 and 5.3 ...


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#91901 - 12/12/13 03:55 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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wow, most minimal CP/M boot, ever.

#95800 - 09/04/14 05:48 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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The changes in r31567 harmed the ITT3030 driver ... before that revision I was able to load a *.TD0 image (even if the emulated machine didn't boot from it).

Selecting an image from the internal menu now crashes MESS with the following message:

Code:
C:\mingw\mess|mess64 itt3030

-----------------------------------------------------
Exception at EIP=00000000016B18DB (not found): ACCESS VIOLATION
While attempting to write memory at 0000000000000018
-----------------------------------------------------
RAX=0000000000000000 RBX=00000000000000AC RCX=000000000AFD11F0 RDX=0000000000030
D40
RSI=0000000000000000 RDI=00000000500003E8 RBP=0000000000000000 RSP=0000000000216
7D0
 R8=0000000000000000  R9=000000000F1040E0 R10=0000000000000000 R11=000000000F165
B60
R12=0000000000001020 R13=00000000000186A0 R14=00000000000165A0 R15=0000000000000
032
-----------------------------------------------------
Stack crawl:
  0000000000216850: 00000000016B18DB (not found)
  0000000000216930: 00000000016B9C57 (not found)
  0000000000228260: 0000000001682701 (not found)
  0000000000228300: 000000000146BE05 (not found)
  0000000000228330: 000000000148C567 (not found)
  0000000000228470: 000000000148E0AD (not found)
  00000000002284D0: 000000000146D611 (not found)
  0000000000228540: 00000000014729A6 (not found)
  0000000000228590: 000000000153AC90 (not found)
  0000000000228640: 00000000014F951A (not found)
  00000000002286B0: 0000000001532145 (not found)
  0000000000228700: 000000000146130B (not found)
  00000000002287A0: 000000000147C9CB (not found)
  0000000000228800: 0000000001487328 (not found)
  000000000022F440: 000000000147E21D (not found)
  000000000022F620: 000000000150B592 (not found)
  000000000022FE00: 00000000009401B0 (not found)
  000000000022FE50: 00000000017DA3BE (not found)
  000000000022FF20: 00000000004013CA (not found)
  000000000022FF50: 00000000004014F8 (not found)
  000000000022FF80: 00000000770F59ED (BaseThreadInitThunk+0x000d)
  000000000022FFD0: 000000007722C541 (RtlUserThreadStart+0x0021)

19:44:18
C:\mingw\mess|


Robert


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#95801 - 09/04/14 05:54 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Based on what's worked for other systems that broke at that time, go to line 600:

Code:
SLOT_INTERFACE( "525dd", FLOPPY_525_DD )


and change that to FLOPPY_525_QD.

#95802 - 09/04/14 06:22 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks RB, that gets the driver back to its original state.


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#95809 - 09/05/14 01:18 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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It's hanging on port 0x50 not being the value it wants, which is the floppy controller. You'll need someone who actually knows what they're doing with the modern floppy stuff (Curt or Olivier, pretty much) to do any actual diagnosis on it.

#95920 - 09/11/14 06:33 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Olivier had a look at the situation in the ITT3030 driver, and as much of that analysis happened in the shoutbox, I'll put it here for safekeeping:

Quote:
Olivier Galibert: it's waiting for the drive to say it's ready, it doesn't happen, that probably means the motor run hookup is wrong
Olivier Galibert: and the fd1791 is mapped from 50 to 55 while it's only 4 addresses


I translated some bits from the tech docs that are linked earlier in this thread (in the meantime Olivier had found it by himself cool):

Page 192: The Floppy controller is being accessed as I/O. Normally it occupies addresses 50H ... 55H (the channel address of 5xH can be changed by soldering Jumpers on the Card).

Page 195:
50H - 1791 Status/Command register
51H - 1791 Track Register
52H - 1791 Sector register
53H - 1791 Data register
54H - Card Status / Card command Register

You can read the card's Status by issueing IN 54H

The bits have the following meaning:

Bit Meaning
7 Data Request (IRQ - inverted 1791-Signal)
6 Interrupt Request (INTRQ - 1791-Signal)
5 Head Load (HLD - inverted 1791-Signal)
4 Ready 3 (Drive 3 ready)
3 Ready 2 (Drive 2 ready)
2 Ready l (Drive 1 ready)
1 Write protect (the disk in the selected drive is write protected)
0 HLT (Halt signal during head load and track change)

Page 196:
Issueing OUT 54 H you can send a command to the Controller Card:

The bits mean:
Bit Meaning
7 SEL1 - Select drive 1
6 SEL2 - Select drive 2
5 SEL3 - Select drive 3
4 MOTOR - Motor on
3 DOOR - Drive door lock drives 1 + 2 (not possible with all drives)
2 SIDESEL - Select disk side
1 KOMP - write comp on/off
0 RG J - Change separator stage to read

Quote:
rfka01: If you switch on the machine, it will sit with a blank screen until you press "b"
Olivier Galibert: oki
R. Belmont: it's not getting that far right now because it hangs up polling the WDx7xx
Olivier Galibert: RB: fd1791 actually, it's polling because it waits for ready, and it doesn't get ready because drive select/motor on aren't hooked up at 0x43
Olivier Galibert: 0x54
Olivier Galibert: You ain't startin' the motor, you ain't getting nuthin'
Olivier Galibert: (or something)


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#96141 - 09/21/14 09:06 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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We need to know what ports 0x30 and 0x31 do. I know they aren't documented in the materials we have, but they seem to be vitally important to the operation of the machine vis a vis some code starting at 0x0031. And frankly I don't read Z80 well enough to understand what that code thinks it's doing (worse: the code appears to be trying to be clever in some way).

ETA: I think ports 30/31 are doing some kind of pseudo-DMA from the floppy controller. (Great, it *is* trying to be clever).

ETA2: No, 30/31 are the i8078 keyboard assistant. At which point I have no farking idea what the 8041 is doing, because the schematic says it's doing what the 8078 is doing.

Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/22/14 01:18 AM.
#96145 - 09/22/14 01:36 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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New code hooks up the FDC control/status ports and simulates the 'b' key being pressed so the boot ROM falls into trying to boot. As part of this it does select drive 0 and turn on the motor and pass some initial tests, but it eventually fails, reading the 1791 status forever.

OG? smile

#96159 - 09/22/14 12:02 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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@RB ...

... thanks for the work on the ITT3030 ... a few observations:

- The comment in the driver
Quote:
//Keyboard MCU ... talks to the 8278 on the keyboard circuit
is clearly wrong there are only a few 74LSxxx logic chips on the keyboard itself

- If you look at page 18 of the "ITT3030 Technical Information" PDF, you can see in the schematic of the Video/Keyboard card that they could use either a 8041 or a 8278 which makes sense as ...
- ... (according to Wikipedia) the 8741 is a programmable 8041, and the 8278 is based on the 8041 too ... that means ...

-
Quote:
ETA2: No, 30/31 are the i8078 keyboard assistant. At which point I have no farking idea what the 8041 is doing, because the schematic says it's doing what the 8078 is doing.
is solved then, because it's either an 8041, 8741 or 8278 that are interchangeable in this setup - your notion of an 8078 is probably a typo

Robert

Last edited by rfka01; 09/22/14 12:08 PM.

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#96181 - 09/23/14 04:10 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Yeah, the 8278 conveniently has the same pinout at the 8041/8741, and putting the 8041's host ports at 30/31 indeed gets proper handshaking. There's some weirdness with the key matrix that the documentation doesn't quite express though, I'll commit everything once I've figured that out.

#96184 - 09/23/14 07:15 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Great! Let me know if you need info from the documentation.

Last edited by rfka01; 09/23/14 07:18 AM.

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#96205 - 09/23/14 06:09 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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RB:

The manual has some more info on the keyboard:

Quote:
The signals processed by the 8278 need to be handled by an adapter card according to the keyboard used.


You can find a picture of this adapter card in the archive contained in post #91658 in this thread, it's the "beeper circuit".


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#96207 - 09/23/14 06:49 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks, I'll check that out.

#97166 - 11/30/14 12:04 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I got another ITT3030 off Ebay, it's in rather bad shape but contains an interesting card.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030%20%232.rar

The CPU card appears to be identical to mine, as is its Eprom (I must have read mine using the wrong chip type as the sizes don't match), but it only has the 64K RAM card opposed to the 256K mine has.

Things get more interesting beyond that: The Video/Keyboard/Serial interface card claims to be a VKI which is mentioned in the documentation, but this beast IS strange:
It has a 5037 Video chip, a Z80 CPU of its own and a Z80 PIO.
Unfortunately all the cards in this system seem fried, they don't work on their own or in combination with parts from my system. The ICs match the silkscreen print under the sockets, so everything seems original.
Why would they put a Z80 CPU on a Graphics/Keyboard interface?


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#97267 - 12/05/14 11:20 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I found a manual for the 256K RAM card ... there's a bit about two different banking modes, plus the info that it can operate in 8bit and 16bit modes (probably in anticipation of a 8086 card which I've never seen).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5541...%20Speicher.pdf


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#97304 - 12/07/14 10:47 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Imagedisk and Teledisk images of a known good boot disk

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030/Boot3030.rar


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#102512 - 11/08/15 05:54 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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#102578 - 11/13/15 05:54 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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1st try of artwork for the ITT3030 ...



The machine has non-standard drives that have a distinctive open/closed look ... is there a way to show one image or the other depending on the state of the drive (disk image loaded/drive empty)? This would also be nice for the DEC Rainbow 100.

What's the status of the scripting engine regarding clicking images to bring up the file select dialog?

I haven't moved the drive LED artwork bits to their proper location yet because I don't know how to make them light up on drive access. The ITT3030 driver is not working yet, so I haven't placed the visible area of the monitor either.

I'm also considering showing the monitor on top of the computer cabinet, but this probably takes up too much screen real estate ...

http://www.silicium.org/oldskool/cpm/itt3030.htm


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#102579 - 11/13/15 06:35 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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wow that looks nice! Do you happen to know how large the actual screen area was on that machine? I mean will the corners character positions be cut off by the rounded bezel, or is there a border area like on e.g. the C64?

Looking a bit closer, the monitor still looks a bit warped/cushioned at the edges... but it's still a great job you did there!

#102581 - 11/13/15 06:46 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks ... I might have to re-take the picture of the monitor, although I did my best to center the lens and use a portrait focal length.
I'll connect the monitor to the machine to see how much of a border is there.


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#102586 - 11/14/15 03:35 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Do you have access to a Kinect?

Perhaps this could be a nice opportunity to 3D scan this thing, in advance for any future 3D-model integration in MAME?

#102587 - 11/14/15 03:45 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Nice thought, but unfortunately I haven't.


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#102595 - 11/15/15 07:24 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Here's a picture of the monitor that shows the screen borders. The phosphor has a strange greenish yellow tint that I haven't seen elsewhere. It's neither amber nor green.



I didn't have a proper camera today, so a less distorted picture of the monitor will have to wait ... what's the general opinion on the placement of the monitor for an all-in-one shot?


Last edited by rfka01; 11/15/15 07:44 PM.

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#102597 - 11/15/15 08:04 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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When the machine is switched on, the light of drive A (right one) comes on regardless if there's a disk inserted or not, then the machine waits for the "B" key to start the boot process.
If you put a disk in the left drive, the light only comes on as CP/M accesses the drive.


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#105660 - 05/20/16 03:38 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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More info from the manual:

The keyboard is comprised of a maximum of 128 keys which are arranged (electrically) in a matrix of 16 rows and 8 columns. (This is a question of the keyboard wiring, the physical arrangement of the keys is totally independent). On every crossing of rows and columns, a keyboard switch can be put which connects the row and column line when pressed. (This allows for different technologies, e.g. switches or capacitive keys. Adapting to the technology used is done by the adapter card). It is the task of the keyboard controller to detect such a connection of a row and column line reliably and convert it into the character code assigned to the key.

This is done by using seven control lines, M0 to M6 (which are also present on the connector pins 65-71 as MSA 0 to MSA 6). They have different tasks:
-M0, M1 and M2 capture the eight column lines
-M3 to M3 capture the 16 row lines

In addition there's a return line RL (which is present in iverted form as RL on pin 72) which signals if the current key is open or closed.

Lastly, there's the clock line KCL on pin 95 which tells, when a new key is detected.

The principle is:

- The controller puts a code on the row line M3 to M6
- this is being decoded in the adaptor electronics, and the relevant row line is selected
- if a key is being pressed in this line, the signal is passed through to one of the column lines
- during the time, in which one of the row lines is selected, the controller issues serially (in the clock of the KCL) the codes of the codes for all eight column lines
- Those column codes control a multiplexer in the keyboard electronics which puts the relevant column line on the return line RL
- Every key in the the selected row that is pressed is captured in this way via the return line
- This is repeated for all 16 rows, so all 128 possible keys are captured in one capture cycle.

It's important to note that the keyboard controller can capture multiple keys without difficulty (in the order of the matrix scan).

itt3030_sm_ger.pdf, page 5-1.1-25


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#105661 - 05/20/16 03:41 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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The 8278/8741 has three addresses available from the outside:

10H read data bus register - IN A,(10H)
11H read status - IN A,(11H)
11H issue command OUT (11H),A


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#105666 - 05/20/16 07:15 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Shoutbox preserved for posterity:

Quote:
R. Belmont: actual keypresses aren't hooked up; it could be done pretty easily if you know the scancodes though
R. Belmont: oh, yeah, that's got the 8741 hookup from hell, I remember that now
Olivier Galibert: RB: Not enough beer in the universe to forget it?
[x] *rfka01 backs slowly away smile
R. Belmont: there's what appears to be a PC-like hookup through an i8078 MCU that talks to the 8741, but there's also a port that apparently directly gets data from the 8741. it's super-weird.
[x] rfka01: Are you looking at photos or documentation?
[x] rfka01: Because there's only one MCS48 type controller - from the pictures (and dumped by me) the 8741 on the Video combination interface.
R. Belmont: a bit of both
R. Belmont: ports 0x30-0x31 are IIRC the 8078 interface and 0x40 supposedly reads the keyboard FIFO
R. Belmont: it looks for the boot 'b' by 0x30 having bit 4 set and then reading the scancode from 0x31
[x] rfka01: schematic says "Keyboard with serial-parallel converter" if that's any help
[x] rfka01: @RB are you sure 0x30 0x31 and 0x40 are ports? Could those values be also commands sent to another port?
R. Belmont: I'm sure about 30/31 since that's where the BIOS reads the 'B" to boot
R. Belmont: 0x40 is claimed to be keyboard FIFO in the documentation, but I don't think I've seen anything actually read it
[x] rfka01: Yeah, this is what gave me the doubt: The way I read it, you issue 0x40 to port 11H to read the FIFO
[...]
Olivier Galibert: what's a 8078?
[x] rfka01: The documentation mentions a 8278, I think 8078 is a typo on RB's behalf ... the documentation mentions it can be replaced by a 8741 which is indeed what's present on my board
R. Belmont: that simplifies things then.
R. Belmont: connect the 8741 to ports 30/31 and then try and get the matrix right
[x] rfka01: OK thanks ... I'll probably cry for help later smile


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#105668 - 05/20/16 09:51 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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i8741 is an mcu, probably emulating the older i8278 Programmable Keyboard Interface. I can't find a datasheet for the latter part, but Stiletto and I have had some luck contacting intelmuseum for really old datasheets before, that may be a good plan in this case.

LN


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#105669 - 05/20/16 10:41 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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@LN thanks for the idea. I will do that if all else fails.
I'd love to follow RB's advice to connect the 8741 to ports 30/31 (or 10/11) but I've failed in my attempts - that happens when motivation overpowers skills by far smile


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#105670 - 05/21/16 03:00 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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It's an 8741 so it'll most likely look like:

Code:
AM_RANGE(0x30, 0x31) AM_DEVREADWRITE("kbdmcu", i8741_device, upi41_master_r, upi41_master_w)


if it's on ports 30 and 31.

#105671 - 05/21/16 03:07 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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It's not a standard hookup - it appears to be reading port 2 instead of status, among other things. rfka, could you point to the schematics again? smile

#105672 - 05/21/16 08:11 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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#105673 - 05/21/16 09:37 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: Lord Nightmare]  
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#105674 - 05/21/16 10:00 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks, Stiletto!


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
#105678 - 05/21/16 04:46 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I wonder if the 8278 is a 8071 with a mask rom as the pinouts are very similar and what isn't the same can be simulated with the right program (which seems like the case here).

#105679 - 05/21/16 06:52 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Stiletto, that's awesome. I think between the 8278 data sheet and everything else I might be able to make this thing work.

#105680 - 05/21/16 08:16 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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@RB great, thanks!

@crazyc nope, machines #1 and #3 which have similar graphics cards both use 8741AD's

Machine #2 (which unfortunately doesn't work) is totally weird, its VKI (Video-Kombinations-Interface, which is actually mentioned somewhere in the docs) has a 5037 for video (the others use a 5027), a seperate Z80 CPU and Z80 pio.

#2 and #3 have 64K memory cards, #1 has 256K ... the docs stress the machine's modularity, maybe it's a candidate for a bus later on.


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#105681 - 05/21/16 08:24 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Anyone here know the German computer magazine MC's homebrew system? The ITT3030's cards have designations like

MC 80-05 (CPU card, machine #1,#3)
MC 80-53 (Floppy card, machine #1,#2,#3)
MC 80-51 (Video/Combo card machine #1,#3)
MC 80-25 (64K RAM piggyback card, machine #2,#3)

I know that ITT had the 3030 designed by some other company, maybe they took a shortcut by mixing and matching well tried cards.


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#105682 - 05/21/16 09:02 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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I checked in an update with "better" z80/i8741 comms, but the keyboard is still not right and you lose the autoboot. Is there some disk that can be booted which gets us to a command line where the keyboard could theoretically be more easily figured out?

(Carl/hap/whoever, if you want to have a look, I put the disks I have in messftp/uploads/ITT3030_Disks/, the system is unique in that it won't bother to read the keyboard unless a valid floppy is inserted. Otherwise the Z80 halts and no video is shown).

Last edited by R. Belmont; 05/21/16 09:03 PM.
#105683 - 05/21/16 09:16 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted By rfka01
Imagedisk and Teledisk images of a known good boot disk

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030/Boot3030.rar


This one should work, but I can't confirm on a physical machine until next week.

I'll check out your changes right away, thanks RB!


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#105684 - 05/21/16 09:34 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Committed a further change which starts the floppy booting (it loads a few sectors, jumps to it and eventually goes off the rails). The keyboard is still wrong as you have to press z rather than b to boot.

Last edited by crazyc; 05/21/16 09:39 PM.
#105685 - 05/21/16 09:43 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted By rfka01
OK ... the video quality is ... debatable, but you can see dimly what this disk image boots into. When you switch the machine on, the first disk drive does a seek marathon not unlike the Apple II drives, then, if you press "b" the machine boots.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/3030MAST.TD0

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/ITT3030%20boot.MOV


Yeah, the boot process is rather terse, although I can't remember if it's possible to boot if you put in the disk after you've switched on the PC.


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#105686 - 05/21/16 10:12 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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#105687 - 05/21/16 10:15 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Wow, great! Compiling right now ... but a combination of a holiday apartment's complimentary WIFI and my light ultrabook don't make for speedy development ... hooray for single driver compile!

Thanks to everybody for chiming in, especially RB & crazyc for the actual work!


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#105688 - 05/21/16 11:06 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Beautiful, I'm glad that particular white whale's finally running smile

#105689 - 05/21/16 11:18 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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still compiling ... but contacted a guy about his ITT2020 grin


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#105692 - 05/22/16 08:58 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Yay for time zones ... crazyc's been figured out a lot of new stuff!

I'm going through the manuals again, looking for relevant stuff.

- there are only two internal floppies, the third one is possible, but only as an external unit, probably like the harddisk you can see here

http://www.computermuseum-muenchen.de/images/index-itt3030.jpg

- After switching on the machine, the screen is supposed to stay dark, the "Floppy nicht bereit !" (floppy not ready message) is therefore "wrong" (but obviously present in the ROM).

- the serial port, timers/counters, iterrupt and daisy chain logic and some 256bytes of RAM are done using a MK3886 chip

- I have never seen mention of a 512K RAM card, only 64K or 256K

- banking: "You can access C000-FFFF on any of the activated banks 0-7 from the internal bank 8 without switching. This facilitates the exchange of common data" (service manual, p.17, this also has the values for selecting the pages via OUT F6H

- something about incomplete address decoding (and the subsequent repetition of memory regions) as well as the relation between main memory and (screen buffer?) memory on the video combination interface on p.50-52 of the service manual

- on p.54 info on how to protect 64 bits out of the 256 on the MK3886


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#105700 - 05/22/16 03:16 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Originally Posted By rfka01
- banking: "You can access C000-FFFF on any of the activated banks 0-7 from the internal bank 8 without switching. This facilitates the exchange of common data" (service manual, p.17, this also has the values for selecting the pages via OUT F6H

The 256K manual seems to imply the c000-ffff region is static and the 256K CPM on the ITT and SYS floppy images won't boot unless it's like that. Those images also currently hang if you try to run a command that doesn't exist, looks to be a fdc hookup issue. I added the screen color to try and match the image you posted earlier but it might be better for you to tweak by comparing to the screen directly rather than though a photograph.

#105704 - 05/22/16 07:56 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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We're searching for QMC2 translators and support for existing translations. Interested? See here!
#105705 - 05/22/16 08:29 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Thanks Rene, that definitely points out some things we don't know yet, although Carl did a great job by guessing.

#105706 - 05/22/16 09:32 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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crazyc, I think you matched the colour of that particular monitor very well!

Rene, thanks for the translation.

The keyboard's vexing: Shift-lock works, shift doesn't, but there seems to be no correlation between the position of the keys in the MAME source and the keyboard matrix in the "technical information" document.

One thing I found though is that special keys like SHIFT or CTRL are not special to the keyboard, but send their codes as any other key (service manual p.163).

Sometimes right after a reset, you have to press "B" twice before the keypress is registered, but the surplus b then shows up on the CP/M prompt.

This resounds with a tendency of the driver to "eat" keypresses, e.g. in the file select dialog where you sometimes have to press the arrow keys or Enter twice to register.

If you boot 3030inf0.td0, only every other keypress produces visible results, but spits out the previous character as well - don't know if those two phenomena are related.


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#105707 - 05/22/16 10:46 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: qmc2]  
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Originally Posted By qmc2
OK, get my translation of the 256K-RAM card manual here:


I/O address should be F5h, not F4h in the first mode description.
The rest of your translation is a bit rough, but accurate.

#105709 - 05/23/16 06:54 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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Sorry for the typo (corrected now)! Even the German original doesn't "sound nice", the translation tries to follow that.


A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open. [Frank Zappa]

We're searching for QMC2 translators and support for existing translations. Interested? See here!
#105932 - 06/04/16 07:16 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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The guy I contacted about his ITT2020 Apple II clone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_2020

started a thread about getting his machine back to work ... maybe an Apple II buff could be of help ... I'm hoping to get the ROMs soon, this was the 1st licensed Apple II clone with PAL video output.

https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/top...clone/?p=297155


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#110586 - 08/13/17 08:16 AM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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A guy over at the German vintage computer forum documented the harddisk for his ITT3030.

It takes the necessary signals for SASI from via a bus adapter and connects a 11MB harddisk (Disctron D-514, 306-4-17) to a DTC-510A SASI=>MFM bridge.

There are lots of pictures, a pin out of the bus adapter and ROMs for the controller available at

http://forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?page=Thread&postID=122318#post122318


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#110590 - 08/13/17 06:05 PM Re: ITT 3030 [Re: rfka01]  
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