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#99618 - 05/06/15 03:50 AM Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder  
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Murveman Offline
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I cannot figure out how to save and load .tpr files. Here's my process...
1. Create a simple program.
2. Type: Save"hello"
3. Select record from the menu bar
4. Hit enter
5. Once it says it was saved: select stop from the menu bar

Although I'm able to reload the program during the session, no .tpr file is created, and therefore, I cannot run the program after I shut down Nestopia. I also cannot figure out how to run existing .tpr files that I've found online, particularly from this website.
http://page.freett.com/familybasic/familybasic_download.html

What do I do?

#99645 - 05/07/15 05:00 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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So far I know support Nester the *.tpr, VirtuaNES the *.vtp and Nestopia the *.tp extension.

Nestopia + Family BASIC (J) (V3.0) as example

To save the .TP file type:

First go to Machine > External > Tape Recorder > File...
and type a new filename which will be selected.

File > Open...
and select the Family BASIC (J) (V3.0).nes file

If you have BASIC listing you can copy the content and paste the text (F12)

SAVE "filename" {don't press ENTER yet!}

Select Machine > External > Tape Recorder > Record

Now press ENTER!

When the flashing cursor reappears

Select Machine > External > Tape Recorder > Stop

***

To load the .TP file type:

First go to Machine > External > Tape Recorder > File...
and select the .TP file.

File > Open...
and select the Family BASIC (J) (V3.0).nes file

LOAD "filename" {don't press ENTER yet!}

Select > Machine > External > Tape Recorder> Play

Now press ENTER!

When the flashing cursor reappears your saved program should be restored

Type RUN

#99646 - 05/07/15 05:18 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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Originally Posted By Murveman
I also cannot figure out how to run existing .tpr files that I've found online, particularly from this website.
http://page.freett.com/familybasic/familybasic_download.html

What do I do?


I converted the 2 tape files (*.tpr to *.tp) to work with Nestopia.
https://www.sendspace.com/file/dsc5tf

First go to Machine > External > Tape Recorder > File...
and select SPARKHOUSE.tp or URBANCHAMP.tp

File > Open...
and select the Family BASIC (J) (V3.0).nes file

LOAD {don't press ENTER yet!}

Select > Machine > External > Tape Recorder> Play

Now press ENTER!

When the flashing cursor reappears your saved program should be restored

Type RUN

PS: If you use the LOAD command without the filename, the option "Use image file naming" should be disabled.

#99649 - 05/07/15 09:42 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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Thank you so much! Especially for converting those two files. Did you use a program to do that?

One more quick question; though I don't know if anyone can answer it...
In many BASIC programming languages there's a way to randomize numbers by generating a sequence through the system's internal clock (for example "RANDOMIZE TIMER" in qbasic or RND(0) on the C64). Is this possible in Family Basic, and if not, is there a decent alternative?

Last edited by Murveman; 05/07/15 10:16 PM.
#99655 - 05/08/15 06:52 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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I can not remember me in detail because I made the conversion some years ago.
It exist a modified version of Nester called "NNNesteR" (not "NNNesterJ") which support 3 different tape extensions to save the data recorder file.

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150508/k8vsvzpf.png

The RND command exist for the Family Basic v3.0
Family Basic v3.0 Reference (PDF)
https://www.sendspace.com/file/kuoud6

Example:

Quote:
10 REM * RND *
20 PLAY "C3D3E3C3"
30 A$="CDEFGABR"
40 N=RND (8)
50 B$=MID$ (A$,N+1,1)
60 PRINT B$;
70 PLAY B$
80 GOTO 40

#99657 - 05/08/15 11:27 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Anna Wu]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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Another 2 emulators exist which support the tape recorder for the Famicom:
eFamilyBASIC
http://homepage3.nifty.com/takeda-toshiya/

and

vdmgr
http://www.geocities.jp/g_lsluk/

1.) NNNesteR - save the loaded *.tp/*.tpr tape file to *.vtp
2.) Convert the *.vtp to *.wav
http://rdev.php.xdomain.jp/makimura/archive/tools#
Example:
vtp2wavall.exe SPARKHOUSE.vtp
3.) SPARKHOUSE.wav was created



Different tape formats
https://www.sendspace.com/file/3oicj6

#99658 - 05/08/15 12:03 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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R. Belmont Offline
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The NES/Famicom don't have an internal clock. This is one reason why games of that era were generally not very random smile

#99663 - 05/08/15 08:29 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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Anna: Thank you so much for your wealth of information. I'll definitely check out NNNesteR. The issue with RND (without a Randomize Timer function) is that the same set of randomized numbers will be generated each time, which makes for stale gameplay.

Belmont: That is such a pity. I've been racking my brain trying to think of a way to make random numbers, and all I can think of is utilizing user-input. In a game-setting that'd probably be taken from cursor/sprite position.

If any of you know of an alternative way, be it better or worse, I'd love to know.

Last edited by Murveman; 05/08/15 08:30 PM.
#99664 - 05/08/15 08:43 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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R. Belmont Offline
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In games on that kind of hardware (I programmed a shipping commercial Super NES game which will remain unnamed) we seeded the randomness by how many frames it took the user the press a button after boot. On the PS1 (which also lacked a clock), we used user input timings plus CD load timings, since no two mechanisms read at the same speed.

Like I said, that's why games of that era weren't very random (and thus are especially amenable to speedruns and TASes).

#99691 - 05/10/15 04:21 PM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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That frames til user input is a great idea. I think that could be accomplished with a looping FOR...NEXT command.
Again, many thanks to both of you.

#99712 - 05/12/15 04:25 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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At this point I don't know if ya'll would prefer I start a new topic, but I have yet another Family Basic question.

I discovered Makimura's 8kb/16kb mod for Family Basic. I used both the 8kb converter and the xdelta mod on my Family Basic v3.0 rom, but I get the same message each time. (Tested in Nestopia Undead & VirtuaNES)

Any ideas?

Last edited by Murveman; 05/12/15 04:39 AM.
#99713 - 05/12/15 04:39 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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It seems, Nestopia can not find the keyboard.
Try to select: Machine > Input > Expansion Port > Family BASIC


#99714 - 05/12/15 04:49 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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Man, if only I could read Japanese. Thanks again, Anna.

Also, have you ever gotten Makiura's 16kb patch to work in VirtuaNES? I keep getting header-related errors.

#99715 - 05/12/15 05:04 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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The MMC5 BASIC patch seems not to work on VirtuaNES.
The VRC7 BASIC patch is ok.

#99730 - 05/13/15 03:33 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Murveman Offline
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Murveman  Offline
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It's too bad STTONE doesn't work with VRC7. I contacted Messatu to see if they had plans to support it, but they do not.

I don't suppose anyone has found a feasible way to convert one of the Tape Recorder formats to a .nes file?

#99731 - 05/13/15 04:49 AM Re: Family Basic - Using Tape Recorder [Re: Murveman]  
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Anna Wu Offline
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Anna Wu  Offline
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Originally Posted By Murveman
It's too bad STTONE doesn't work with VRC7. I contacted Messatu to see if they had plans to support it, but they do not.

I don't suppose anyone has found a feasible way to convert one of the Tape Recorder formats to a .nes file?


Sorry, I can't help with STTONE because I will not install .NET v4

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