Thread Like Summary
=CO=Windler, abelenki, bobz, Darkstar, DarthMarino, Duke, Dullaron, Edstrom, Golden Child, hal3000, hap, ICEknight, Just Desserts, LoganB, Luzie, MilanSK, mixmaster, MrBogi, Parotaku, R. Belmont, Revenant, robcfg, Shideravan, SomeRandomGuyIdk, ssj, Stiletto, zillion
Total Likes: 123
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by seanriddle
seanriddle
Originally Posted By hap

Hmm, wizatron issue could also be due to how the digit leds work. They obviously should take some time to decay so strobing them doesn't look like a flickering disco. Maybe related to that.

TI-1270: do you have the post-acid pic? I can see the microinstructions, but barely see the output pla and main opcode pla.

Yeah, the change to SETR and removal of RSTR may have something to do with it. I still haven't read enough to understand that change yet. I don't have any working TMS-0970s left, but I have a couple of TMS-0980s, which likely output the same. I could do some logic captures if you think it might help.

I uploaded the TI-1270 post-acid pic.
Liked Replies
by hap
hap
Nelsonic Star Fox, Sean decapped it a few years ago, but ROM layout wasn't figured out until now.
It also has an extra sound effect chip, similar to other electronic toys (eg. Executor keychain). That one is not emulated, it is used for 3 sound effects in Star Fox:
- player ship moves
- enemy explodes
- player drops bomb

basic background artwork for MAME: https://tsk-tsk.net/net/extart/

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
9 members like this
by hap
hap
Here is Scrabble Lexor

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

It's a simple scrabble game and scorekeeper, does not have a word library in the ROM.
The interesting thing is that this is on a Fujitsu MB8841, first time I've seen a handheld/tabletop using this. The MCU was already emulated in MAME. Sean figured out how to dump it.

This might also mean good news on the arcade side soon, it's possible to dump MB8841 protection MCUs now.
7 members like this
by hal3000
hal3000
The games loaned out by alexb has now been dumped and added to MAME. With this, all known G&W games and variants has now been preserved smile Thanks Alex for providing the units!
6 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork for Circus up in the Non-Nintendo folder of my Google Drive:

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
6 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork up for Tayny Okeana in the "Non-Nintendo" folder. Yes, the alignment with the divers at the top is that bad on the real unit, probably worse.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
5 members like this
by hap
hap
Sean decapped the 1st-gen Mattel handhelds.
Actually that's old news but not well known, he did those a few years ago. Just that the opcodes weren't figured out until now, and now the MCU they're on is finally emulated in MAME.
He made a webpage covering this, read more about it over there if interested! https://www.seanriddle.com/firstmattelledgames.html

I think this plus PPS4/1 covers all Mattel games that were on Rockwell MCUs. There are a few unemulated Mattel LED games, but on different MCUs. Sub Chase and Armor Battle are on a Hitachi MCU, and IIRC Bowling and that weird Alien detection toy are on COP400.

Screenshots (I hope the forum allows 5 in one post...):

Auto Race:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Missile Attack aka Space Alert:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Football:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Baseball:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Gravity:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
5 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

I'll lump it in with my G&W files for the time being:

Game & Watch Artwork (including Bassmate & Space Mission)
4 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here's what I have for Monkey Goalkeeper (AKA Merry Footballers). Also in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
4 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
I put up some art in the Non-Nintendo folder of my Google drive for four more Russian Egg clones: Kot-rybolov (Fishing Cat), Frogling, Night Burglars and Space Flight.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
4 members like this
by alexb
alexb
Alright folks, if they still haven't been dumped yet, I have managed to acquire a purple Judge and the alternate music version of Mario's Cement Factory. Also the Helmet in my current G&W collection appears to be a CN-07 version. I'm happily willing to donate them in order to help out with video game preservation.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I believe this is what the board should look like for Helmet. I was able to perform the 2 characters glitch on it.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
4 members like this
by hap
hap
Here is Mattel Look Alive! Football, dumped yesterday by Sean.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
4 members like this
by kevtris
kevtris
I dumped the final microcontroller. I had no adapter for the shrink dip version (and haven't encountered any until now) so if I hit some more at some point, I will make an adapter. Until then, I did... this thing.

[Linked Image from cdn.discordapp.com]

[Linked Image from cdn.discordapp.com]

That's it in the chip dumper.
3 members like this
by hap
hap
Sean recently found a cheap Entex Musical Marvin and dumped it electronically (it's on TMS1100)
And here it is in MAME:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
3 members like this
by hap
hap
Here is The Dracula, by Tsukuda. It was donated to Sean by Parotaku.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
3 members like this
by Parotaku
Parotaku
Hello
My account was finally approved so, I'm new here (but I've been following this thread for quite some time!) nice to meet you all.

I'm the french guy who recently sent Tsukuda's 'The Dracula' to Sean Riddle for him to dump.
So a big thanks to him and to @hap for all your work (and even including the 'hidden' factory/test mode in the menus!). It's working beautifully in MAME!
3 members like this
by hal3000
hal3000
The display for G&W Egg has been improved. The screen has been digitized from an actual game unit.

This is what the game looks like with the new display file:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Thanks to Mackapär (https://www.instagram.com/butikmackapar/) for lending out the game!
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here is some artwork for the new scan Henrik did for Autoslalom:

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

It can be found here in the Non-Nintendo folder:
Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here is some art for the last two G&W Egg clones of this batch: Morskaja ataka (Naval Attack) and Ataka asteroidov (Asteroid Attack). The naval game just has the background printed directly on paper so there is no transparency to reveal the darker background (like Night Burglars). These are in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from images2.imgbox.com]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by Mr. Do
Mr. Do
Below stuff will be on its way to Sean, as soon as Skate or Die arrives here.
  • The one with no label is TMNT 2
  • The yellow is JPN version of Bottom of the Ninth

Little bummed, as I had also won a bid for Antarctic Adventure, then seller said it wasn't working, then pulled it, and couldn't get a hold of him again.

Anyway... putting this here, just to make sure no one accidentally double-dips.

[Linked Image from mrdo.mameworld.info]
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork is up for Biathlon in the "Non Nintendo" folder in the link below. The background is printed on paper so it doesn't have the typical translucent backdrop with gray background. The game is an......interesting idea using the same ROM as G&W Egg and countless clones.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by hap
hap
Sean was able to dump Mattel Basketball 2/Soccer 2, they are on dual COP420.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
2 members like this
by hap
hap
And VTech 4 in 1 Electronic Games:
It's the handheld led version of The Game Machine

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
2 members like this
by hap
hap
Tsukuda Pachinko:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

It's on a TMS2670
It was already decapped/dumped a year ago, but MCU emulation wasn't added to MAME until recently, when Sean obtained a TMS2100/2300 doc.
2 members like this
by JDGP030302
JDGP030302
Two useless but interesting G&W little details i noticed:

Super Mario Bros. have a neat little funny easter egg: if the alarm activates while the game runs and the player have three extra lives the "Alarm Koopa" will breathe fire (as normal) but with a smoke cloud appearing, giving the impression that it is burning the leftmost extra life icon. Guess that they wanted to use every single segment available (And you tought SMB was complex for an electronic handheld).

In Zelda the princess have four segments for the arms (check the svg) but when she appears in the game she never moves them. It gives me the impression that the 2 segments for the raised arms are unused (of course, outside of pressing the game button when putting the batteries or resetting the game).
1 member likes this
by hal3000
hal3000
Tronica: Space Mission has now been preserved in MAME smile

The game is based on the Sharp SM5A and the gameplay is similar to G&W Octopus.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Game case and inlay scans has been uploaded here. The inlay was hard to scan and is a bit dark. If someone wants me to redo it, please let me know and I can give it a try.
1 member likes this
by hal3000
hal3000
The artwork looks awesome, great work!

Thanks to MilanSK for lending out the unit from which the game and display was scanned from.
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Originally Posted by hap
@DarthMarino You forgot to update the top-left part. The real handheld simply has "ИМ" in a taller font.

Good catch. Updated.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork for Tronica's Thunder Ball can be found in the "Non-Nintendo" folder on my Google Drive linked below. Special thanks to Henrik for dumping the game and scanning the art files.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by kevtris
kevtris
I got the games earlier in the week and tonight I desoldered everything. All games do have HD388xx parts in them, but Defender is weird. It has a 64 pin shrink dip version of the HD38820, which I didn't even know existed! I will have to solder wires onto it to dump or something. It should dump fine, I just need to connect up to it. the Pucki and Monsters game has an HD38750 on it which is kind of surprising, since that has a smaller ROM than the usual HD38800. I can dump it, though so no big deal.

So I have 8 CPUs ready to dump.
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
To elaborate, we have the original green version of Judge dumped. There is a scoring error in Game B which gives one of the players an advantage in a certain situation. This was corrected by Nintendo and the fixed versions came in a purple case instead of green.

We also have the original version of the Mario's Cement Factory tabletop unit dumped. This plays a jingle when you start the game that sounds exactly like the bassline in "Another One Bites the Dust". Newer releases had an original jingle in it's place, most likely due to a rights issue.

Helmet originally had a glitch where you could get the game to have two characters on screen at once. The game code is CN-07. The corrected version that has been dumped lists CN-17 on the chip despite still saying CN-07 on the outside case. Besides opening the case as Just Desserts mentioned, the only other way to tell if it's an original CN-07 version is to get the game to glitch.
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Originally Posted by DarthMarino
Judge is easy to track down. There are always a few on ebay. They just tend to be a bit pricey for what it is. There are Cement Factory's out there but they are even more money and would require the seller to figure out which song plays at the start. Helmet would be very tough to find the correct one. Even getting the glitch to work is fairly complicated and I doubt any seller would want to open their unit to find out which they have.

Maybe if someone was going to try, going for a low serial number on Helmet?
There's a couple in the 2 million range on eBay (and a lot in the 4 - 10 million range, so 2m seems low...) That's assuming they are numbered sequentially and 2 million is even low enough to get the version we want. (And one odd one with a V0062134 serial. Only one out of all of them on eBay with a letter like that...)

Do we know the serial of the one that was dumped?
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
There is some information here about the Helmet glitch (including how to do it) and its lists the 2nd edition of Helmet units starting with the SN 131xxxxx though that doesn't line up with the unit Henrik dumped.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090511074031/http://www.geocities.com/gwfaq/index2.html
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
MCU label serial is 700P (Coleco version is 701P), so yes, even though on Youtube the gameplay and sounds seem identical to the Coleco version, it is probably a different program revision.

The VFD differences are very small. Not just the vans, also see the top half, frog 'death' sprite at the edges.
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Ahh, all I could find was the VFD itself, and the joystick... I guess I had a broken one and got rid of the rest of it.
I snagged the board from eBay. At least if the VFD is bad on his I have a spare for getting a good picture of, and might even be able to get it working. smile
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here's some artwork for Fowling. It can be found in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Originally Posted by Dullaron
Is the Frogger Gakken game board bad? I just wondering,

Got the board yesterday. Connected a speaker and power, and the game does seem to work (as he said in the auction). I can hear it, and I can move the frog, but the VFD doesn't come on. No obvious damage, did a quick transistor check and they are fine, so might be some other component or the VFD itself...
But at least the CPU works. I'll send it off to Kevin for dumping, and can include another VFD just in case.

Kevin- do you have an easy way to just power up a VFD with all the elements lit? Just not sure how to test it easily... smile
1 member likes this
by kevtris
kevtris
yes I can light up the VFD so long as the other parts are present. That's how I been doing the vfd captures so far; I wire them up so all the segments light using the power supply on the game
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork for Hockey (Khokkey) up in the Non-Nintendo folder of my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by Just Desserts
Just Desserts
I tend to agree with simzy on this one.

My impression has always been that MAME tends to go out of its way to preserve hardware bugs. I would argue that given the LCD/VFD being such a critical component of these games - they're not like arcade machines where you can hook them up to any monitor - accurately preserving printing errors and the like is important.

With part of the value of MAME being in its dispassionate documentation of history, a manufacturing defect is practically the textbook definition of the sort of thing that it should preserve. Games didn't exist in a vacuum, poor manufacturing tolerances or standards is an important thing not to varnish over.

If these printing/manufacturing defects are so relatively few and far between, how much additional workload would it be to provide a "fixed" set of artwork as a separate artwork file, while keeping the SVG within the ROMset itself as accurate as possible to the source material?

There's always going to be some level of variation, as the SVG is being done by a human manually tracing over photos, and this is exacerbated when it comes to VFD games due to the grating that sits between the segments and the camera. But in my belief, things like asymmetry, or visually bridged segments, should be the presentation given to users so as to preserve an accurate first impression of a title.
1 member likes this
by Vas Crabb
Vas Crabb
As someone who has successfully carried out TEMPEST-style attacks against various kinds of devices and transmission lines for fun and profit, right up to reproducing the image from an LCD monitor in a different room, you have no clue what you’re talking about. For reasons that would take too long to explain here if you don’t already understand, it’s not going to let you read the ROM out of a microcontroller.

TV detector vans actually did exist, at least in the UK, although I don’t know whether they were used in Germany. CRTs radiate a lot of electromagnetic energy, and older CRTs produced detectable amounts of X-ray radiation as well (the electron beam(s) striking the anode have high enough energy to produce X-rays, but newer CRTs use materials that provide better shielding). Big active matrix LCDs actually radiate even more energy than CRTs – the transparent conductive grid used to drive the pixels acts like a big radiating antenna, and there’s usually nothing in front of it providing significant attenuation. Surreptitiously recreating the image displayed on a monitor by detecting the electromagnetic emissions is generally referred to as Van Eck phreaking, after Wim van Eck, who demonstrated it in the mid ’80s.

Radar detector detectors are real as well, and work by detecting electromagnetic emissions from the RF downconverters in the radar detectors. Newer radar detectors have far lower emissions, so they’re a lot harder to detect than the older ones were.
1 member likes this
by Vas Crabb
Vas Crabb
Seriously, you have no clue what you’re talking about, but if you won’t accept it from me telling you, put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate a practical attack on a chip. Otherwise, just shut up and stop derailing threads.
1 member likes this
by alexb
alexb
I hope everyone will enjoy playing them!
1 member likes this
by Just Desserts
Just Desserts
Originally Posted by simzy39
Would you agree on:
1. The info on the promotional uses of each G&W game in the driver (small descriptive details too); and,
2. The art/face of each one so that users can select them. (I know the rom isn't different, but it allows a user to see the history promotional face/version of the G&W.)

No? Because unless the person who owns all these promo items is willing to provide this info, what are you even talking about?

Go get the info, then we can discuss how to actually put it in. Otherwise you're basically going "Hey, this other person has things, all you other people, go do something." Nah, it doesn't work that way.
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
Sean decapped Entex Blast It (TMS1000), see below for MAME screenshot.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
and Tiger Deluxe Football

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
And Bandai TC7

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
SMB3 and SMW are added as 'not working' since Sean didn't scan the LCD yet. They're on SM530.
There are probably some others on this MCU too.

Zelda and SMB(1) are on OKI MSM5055. Bits are visible on the die.
1 member likes this
by Mr. Do
Mr. Do
Originally Posted by hap
For the overlays?
ranger_lennier did that in 2011 for all 12 games, res size around 1200x2500 for each.

Where are these at? I've only seen the images in Raph Koster's emulator... they all seem like they were tilted a bit when scanned. And did RL scan with just the overlay? Or with the Microvision header and bottom controller also attached? (It would be better if it was just the overlay).


Originally Posted by Al Kossow
Someone just gave me a MicroVision with a half-dozen games
Is there any need for high resolution shots of them?

Depending on what the other scans look like... might not hurt?

(BTW... I'm not gone... just that normal job has consumed me... I haven't touched any artwork in almost 16 months, which has made me really sad.)
(Hoping to get back in the swing of things "sometime this year.")
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
Let's pretend for a second Nintendo R.O.B. is a handheld, then I can post about it here.
Sean dumped a couple of Sharp SM590 MCUs in 2017(eg. NES/SNES lockout chips), and Lord Nightmare (the guy above me in this thread right here) started writing SM590 emulation as a subdevice of SM510. Last week after I worked on SM530/Nelsonic stuff, I finished MAME's SM590 emulation, and added the ROB that also uses a SM590.
It uses a similar lightsensor as the NES Zapper, so I don't think it would have worked were it not for kmg's recent improvements on that.

It's even more useless than the real ROB since the physics are not simulated, but may be fun to try once.
mame nes gyromite -special rob -numscreens 2

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
B6001 is Missile Attack / Space Alert.
The Ski Slalom manual gameplay description matches 1:1 with Auto Race. Except of course it's upside-down, and they call the background sound "slush". I definitely wouldn't call Auto Race's background sound "slush" :P
There's no youtube videos for Ski Slalom. There is one that shows the game running in LEDhead (an old Mattel handhelds simulator) and on that one it has the same sounds as Auto Race.

Originally Posted by Dullaron
I ran into two different videos of the Armor Battle by Mattel. One only showing red round dots and the other is showing red tanks. Tanks only pointing up.

Ah, it looks like the games on Hitachi MCU are by Bandai.
HD38132 Submarine
HD38133 Combat
HD38134 Champion Racer
HD38135 Golf Game
HD38136 Missile Invader
1 member likes this
#120764 Apr 17th a 03:38 AM
by kevtris
kevtris
Well I finally took pics of the VFDs and pinned out that last batch of handheld games. I dumped the micros too but I don't have any way to test if the dumps are good. There's one to go, and I haven't dumped it yet since I need to use one of the adapters for the QFPs on it, and I don't want to remove the chips from them until the dumps are tested good. The last chip is a shrink dip package, so I will have to wire it in with 30-some wires to dump it and I only want to do that once. This is the first time I have encountered the sdip package for these. If I find any others I should probably make adapters.

I took a bunch of VFD pics of each game at different exposure levels, so hopefully that will help with vectoring them.

http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Bombman/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Gakken%20Defender/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Kampf%20Der%20Monster/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Kiteyo%20Parman/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Operation%20Z/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Pucki%20and%20Monsters/
http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/Handhelds/VFD%20Games/Toukon%20Jyuohmaru/

Toukon Jyuohmaru had a bad VFD but I still managed to get pictures of it lit and pin it out. Some of the filament wires are broken. It looks like one of the grids is bent up slightly inside and it caused it to touch at some point. This isn't the first time I have seen that.

Defender has the SDIP part so it isn't dumped yet, but I did all the VFD pictures and pinned it out in preparation.

Once the dumps are verified I can stick all these back together and return them.
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
at hydef's https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Pv-LGpdKXlvgDXMEobhVfGbqVGA07v2a
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
Here they are https://tsk-tsk.net/net/temp/vfd_svg.zip
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
If it's green, it just means the colors have degraded a lot after all these years.

I think it applies to more VFD games, but it's very hard to tell which ones were originally yellow, when all video references are relatively recent. It doesn't help when games have touched-up photos on the box. Tomy Tron's box art has yellow instead of green for example, but does not look like an untampered VFD photo.
Or even fake VFDs in commercials, like Epoch Dracula here:
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by simzy39
simzy39
Just in case you both haven't seen it, here is the blog with the photos of the system and list of parts, etc.:
https://slydc.blogspot.com/2022/08/the-microcomputer-mahjong.html
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
Right, his email address is on his site:
https://www.seanriddle.com/
1 member likes this
by SomeRandomGuyIdk
SomeRandomGuyIdk
I've been working on some Bellfruit fruit machines for the past month or so... turns out one of them uses a TMS1000 for sound:


The chip in question is MP0027A which was originally used in the Chroma-Chime doorbell.
I was wondering if anyone might already have one of these as I'm seeing that MP0027 got documented in hh_tms1k.cpp recently?
The original and A version should be compatible, the songs on them are the same at least. Even if nobody has one, we found
a doorbell that should 99% have the chip in it on US eBay and there's folks willing to put the money in to get it dumped.
Nothing critical here as it's just for one machine, but would be nice to get a chip sent to Sean or anybody else doing the decapping
and get it dumped at some point.
1 member likes this
by Dullaron
Dullaron
I had this one when I was little. Epoch-Man

UK is the Mini-Munchman in yellow.

Japan is the Pak-Pak Man 2 in green.

All should have the same game play.
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
I improved the Game Master handheld console emulation, all the games work well enough now.
updated driver here: https://github.com/mamedev/mame/blob/master/src/mame/handheld/gmaster.cpp

What was fixed:
CPU was twice as slow and sound didn't work much, maybe this was a regression.
LCD chip was unknown, turns out it's 2 SED1520, and that fixed a bunch of gfx.
CPU core had a carry flag bug, fixing that fixed some misplaced gfx.

The games are really really bad, I don't feel any effort put into them to make them fun to play.
It's not due to the limited hardware, the soccer game shows that you can have smooth paced action.
But I'm sure the thousands of kids that got this thing instead of the Game Boy did have one or two games they actually liked to play.

These reviews by ashens are fun:



1 member likes this
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