Thread Like Summary
abelenki, bobz, DarthMarino, Duke, Dullaron, Edstrom, hal3000, hap, ICEknight, Just Desserts, Luzie, MilanSK, mixmaster, MrBogi, R. Belmont, robcfg, ssj, Stiletto
Total Likes: 56
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by seanriddle
seanriddle
Originally Posted By hap

Hmm, wizatron issue could also be due to how the digit leds work. They obviously should take some time to decay so strobing them doesn't look like a flickering disco. Maybe related to that.

TI-1270: do you have the post-acid pic? I can see the microinstructions, but barely see the output pla and main opcode pla.

Yeah, the change to SETR and removal of RSTR may have something to do with it. I still haven't read enough to understand that change yet. I don't have any working TMS-0970s left, but I have a couple of TMS-0980s, which likely output the same. I could do some logic captures if you think it might help.

I uploaded the TI-1270 post-acid pic.
Liked Replies
by hal3000
hal3000
The games loaned out by alexb has now been dumped and added to MAME. With this, all known G&W games and variants has now been preserved smile Thanks Alex for providing the units!
6 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork up for Tayny Okeana in the "Non-Nintendo" folder. Yes, the alignment with the divers at the top is that bad on the real unit, probably worse.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
5 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

I'll lump it in with my G&W files for the time being:

Game & Watch Artwork (including Bassmate & Space Mission)
4 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here's what I have for Monkey Goalkeeper (AKA Merry Footballers). Also in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
4 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
I put up some art in the Non-Nintendo folder of my Google drive for four more Russian Egg clones: Kot-rybolov (Fishing Cat), Frogling, Night Burglars and Space Flight.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
4 members like this
by alexb
alexb
Alright folks, if they still haven't been dumped yet, I have managed to acquire a purple Judge and the alternate music version of Mario's Cement Factory. Also the Helmet in my current G&W collection appears to be a CN-07 version. I'm happily willing to donate them in order to help out with video game preservation.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
I believe this is what the board should look like for Helmet. I was able to perform the 2 characters glitch on it.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
4 members like this
by hal3000
hal3000
The display for G&W Egg has been improved. The screen has been digitized from an actual game unit.

This is what the game looks like with the new display file:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Thanks to Mackapär (https://www.instagram.com/butikmackapar/) for lending out the game!
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here is some artwork for the new scan Henrik did for Autoslalom:

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

It can be found here in the Non-Nintendo folder:
Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here is some art for the last two G&W Egg clones of this batch: Morskaja ataka (Naval Attack) and Ataka asteroidov (Asteroid Attack). The naval game just has the background printed directly on paper so there is no transparency to reveal the darker background (like Night Burglars). These are in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from images2.imgbox.com]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by Mr. Do
Mr. Do
Below stuff will be on its way to Sean, as soon as Skate or Die arrives here.
  • The one with no label is TMNT 2
  • The yellow is JPN version of Bottom of the Ninth

Little bummed, as I had also won a bid for Antarctic Adventure, then seller said it wasn't working, then pulled it, and couldn't get a hold of him again.

Anyway... putting this here, just to make sure no one accidentally double-dips.

[Linked Image from mrdo.mameworld.info]
2 members like this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork is up for Biathlon in the "Non Nintendo" folder in the link below. The background is printed on paper so it doesn't have the typical translucent backdrop with gray background. The game is an......interesting idea using the same ROM as G&W Egg and countless clones.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
2 members like this
by JDGP030302
JDGP030302
Two useless but interesting G&W little details i noticed:

Super Mario Bros. have a neat little funny easter egg: if the alarm activates while the game runs and the player have three extra lives the "Alarm Koopa" will breathe fire (as normal) but with a smoke cloud appearing, giving the impression that it is burning the leftmost extra life icon. Guess that they wanted to use every single segment available (And you tought SMB was complex for an electronic handheld).

In Zelda the princess have four segments for the arms (check the svg) but when she appears in the game she never moves them. It gives me the impression that the 2 segments for the raised arms are unused (of course, outside of pressing the game button when putting the batteries or resetting the game).
1 member likes this
by hal3000
hal3000
Tronica: Space Mission has now been preserved in MAME smile

The game is based on the Sharp SM5A and the gameplay is similar to G&W Octopus.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Game case and inlay scans has been uploaded here. The inlay was hard to scan and is a bit dark. If someone wants me to redo it, please let me know and I can give it a try.
1 member likes this
by hal3000
hal3000
The artwork looks awesome, great work!

Thanks to MilanSK for lending out the unit from which the game and display was scanned from.
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Originally Posted by hap
@DarthMarino You forgot to update the top-left part. The real handheld simply has "ИМ" in a taller font.

Good catch. Updated.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork for Tronica's Thunder Ball can be found in the "Non-Nintendo" folder on my Google Drive linked below. Special thanks to Henrik for dumping the game and scanning the art files.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by kevtris
kevtris
I got the games earlier in the week and tonight I desoldered everything. All games do have HD388xx parts in them, but Defender is weird. It has a 64 pin shrink dip version of the HD38820, which I didn't even know existed! I will have to solder wires onto it to dump or something. It should dump fine, I just need to connect up to it. the Pucki and Monsters game has an HD38750 on it which is kind of surprising, since that has a smaller ROM than the usual HD38800. I can dump it, though so no big deal.

So I have 8 CPUs ready to dump.
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
To elaborate, we have the original green version of Judge dumped. There is a scoring error in Game B which gives one of the players an advantage in a certain situation. This was corrected by Nintendo and the fixed versions came in a purple case instead of green.

We also have the original version of the Mario's Cement Factory tabletop unit dumped. This plays a jingle when you start the game that sounds exactly like the bassline in "Another One Bites the Dust". Newer releases had an original jingle in it's place, most likely due to a rights issue.

Helmet originally had a glitch where you could get the game to have two characters on screen at once. The game code is CN-07. The corrected version that has been dumped lists CN-17 on the chip despite still saying CN-07 on the outside case. Besides opening the case as Just Desserts mentioned, the only other way to tell if it's an original CN-07 version is to get the game to glitch.
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Originally Posted by DarthMarino
Judge is easy to track down. There are always a few on ebay. They just tend to be a bit pricey for what it is. There are Cement Factory's out there but they are even more money and would require the seller to figure out which song plays at the start. Helmet would be very tough to find the correct one. Even getting the glitch to work is fairly complicated and I doubt any seller would want to open their unit to find out which they have.

Maybe if someone was going to try, going for a low serial number on Helmet?
There's a couple in the 2 million range on eBay (and a lot in the 4 - 10 million range, so 2m seems low...) That's assuming they are numbered sequentially and 2 million is even low enough to get the version we want. (And one odd one with a V0062134 serial. Only one out of all of them on eBay with a letter like that...)

Do we know the serial of the one that was dumped?
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
There is some information here about the Helmet glitch (including how to do it) and its lists the 2nd edition of Helmet units starting with the SN 131xxxxx though that doesn't line up with the unit Henrik dumped.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090511074031/http://www.geocities.com/gwfaq/index2.html
1 member likes this
by hap
hap
MCU label serial is 700P (Coleco version is 701P), so yes, even though on Youtube the gameplay and sounds seem identical to the Coleco version, it is probably a different program revision.

The VFD differences are very small. Not just the vans, also see the top half, frog 'death' sprite at the edges.
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Ahh, all I could find was the VFD itself, and the joystick... I guess I had a broken one and got rid of the rest of it.
I snagged the board from eBay. At least if the VFD is bad on his I have a spare for getting a good picture of, and might even be able to get it working. smile
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Here's some artwork for Fowling. It can be found in the Non-Nintendo folder on my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by Rik
Rik
Originally Posted by Dullaron
Is the Frogger Gakken game board bad? I just wondering,

Got the board yesterday. Connected a speaker and power, and the game does seem to work (as he said in the auction). I can hear it, and I can move the frog, but the VFD doesn't come on. No obvious damage, did a quick transistor check and they are fine, so might be some other component or the VFD itself...
But at least the CPU works. I'll send it off to Kevin for dumping, and can include another VFD just in case.

Kevin- do you have an easy way to just power up a VFD with all the elements lit? Just not sure how to test it easily... smile
1 member likes this
by kevtris
kevtris
yes I can light up the VFD so long as the other parts are present. That's how I been doing the vfd captures so far; I wire them up so all the segments light using the power supply on the game
1 member likes this
by DarthMarino
DarthMarino
Artwork for Hockey (Khokkey) up in the Non-Nintendo folder of my Google Drive.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Game & Watch/LCD Artwork
1 member likes this
by Just Desserts
Just Desserts
I tend to agree with simzy on this one.

My impression has always been that MAME tends to go out of its way to preserve hardware bugs. I would argue that given the LCD/VFD being such a critical component of these games - they're not like arcade machines where you can hook them up to any monitor - accurately preserving printing errors and the like is important.

With part of the value of MAME being in its dispassionate documentation of history, a manufacturing defect is practically the textbook definition of the sort of thing that it should preserve. Games didn't exist in a vacuum, poor manufacturing tolerances or standards is an important thing not to varnish over.

If these printing/manufacturing defects are so relatively few and far between, how much additional workload would it be to provide a "fixed" set of artwork as a separate artwork file, while keeping the SVG within the ROMset itself as accurate as possible to the source material?

There's always going to be some level of variation, as the SVG is being done by a human manually tracing over photos, and this is exacerbated when it comes to VFD games due to the grating that sits between the segments and the camera. But in my belief, things like asymmetry, or visually bridged segments, should be the presentation given to users so as to preserve an accurate first impression of a title.
1 member likes this
by Vas Crabb
Vas Crabb
As someone who has successfully carried out TEMPEST-style attacks against various kinds of devices and transmission lines for fun and profit, right up to reproducing the image from an LCD monitor in a different room, you have no clue what you’re talking about. For reasons that would take too long to explain here if you don’t already understand, it’s not going to let you read the ROM out of a microcontroller.

TV detector vans actually did exist, at least in the UK, although I don’t know whether they were used in Germany. CRTs radiate a lot of electromagnetic energy, and older CRTs produced detectable amounts of X-ray radiation as well (the electron beam(s) striking the anode have high enough energy to produce X-rays, but newer CRTs use materials that provide better shielding). Big active matrix LCDs actually radiate even more energy than CRTs – the transparent conductive grid used to drive the pixels acts like a big radiating antenna, and there’s usually nothing in front of it providing significant attenuation. Surreptitiously recreating the image displayed on a monitor by detecting the electromagnetic emissions is generally referred to as Van Eck phreaking, after Wim van Eck, who demonstrated it in the mid ’80s.

Radar detector detectors are real as well, and work by detecting electromagnetic emissions from the RF downconverters in the radar detectors. Newer radar detectors have far lower emissions, so they’re a lot harder to detect than the older ones were.
1 member likes this
by Vas Crabb
Vas Crabb
Seriously, you have no clue what you’re talking about, but if you won’t accept it from me telling you, put your money where your mouth is and demonstrate a practical attack on a chip. Otherwise, just shut up and stop derailing threads.
1 member likes this
by alexb
alexb
I hope everyone will enjoy playing them!
1 member likes this
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