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Posted By: mochamame C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/15/10 06:30 PM
I'm using SDLMESS 0.136 with M+GUI on Linux. I was just curious if anyone is able to view C64 demos using SDLMESS? For example, the files on this site: http://www.c64.ch/demos/

Basically none of the ones I tried do anything. I also converted the d64 images to g64 images and it didn't make any difference. I also tried the Vice emulator and it also doesn't seem to work. What is the trick? I'd prefer to use SDLMESS as opposed to Vice anyway. Thanks for any help.
Posted By: R. Belmont Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/15/10 06:36 PM
For demoscene stuff you're far ahead to use VICE at this time. That said, there have been issues with disk images and MESS's new hardware drive emulation, so it would help if you'd name a few specific disks we can check out.
Posted By: etabeta78 Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/15/10 07:04 PM
many improvements to the floppy code have been made after 0.136. I definitely suggest to try with the latest version, which also supports again d64 images.

@Arbee: after Curt's work on the floppy drives, MESS is not anymore that far away from VICE (thanks also to the VIC2 code borrowed by Robiza from Frodo)... you might want to try out the latest versions wink
Posted By: mochamame Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/15/10 08:21 PM
Thanks for the reply. I noticed in the 0.137 release notes there was work performed on the D64 support.

I can't get Vice to work on these either. Here are 3 examples.

http://www.c64.ch/demos/download.php?id=790
http://www.c64.ch/demos/download.php?id=7177
http://www.c64.ch/demos/download.php?id=1466
Posted By: Curt Coder Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/15/10 08:29 PM
Keep in mind that this probably has nothing to do with D64 file support, instead maybe CPU/CIA/etc emulation...
Posted By: mochamame Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/16/10 03:50 PM
Originally Posted By Curt Coder
Keep in mind that this probably has nothing to do with D64 file support, instead maybe CPU/CIA/etc emulation...


I guess you're right. I can't get Vice to work, and sometimes when it almost works it will halt the CPU.
Posted By: Waremonger Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/16/10 09:11 PM
Originally Posted By mochamame
I can't get Vice to work on these either. Here are 3 examples.

I was able to get all three demos to work perfectly for me under WinVice v2.1 and CCS64 v3.7. You have to make sure you have the system in PAL mode (VICE: Options > Video Standard > PAL-G) as they will not work under NTSC (as with a lot of C64 demos). It probably wouldn't hurt to keep "True drive emulation" turned on as well. It's probably not needed by a lot of demos but most games in G64 format will definitely need it.

I was also able to get Duex Ex Machine to run in MESS using the PAL C64 (c64cpal), however it has some graphical issues and the sound stutters occasionally. Edge of Disgrace would have probably also worked except that when you have to switch disks the emulated C64 doesn't realize the disks have been swapped. Dream Injection will also run in MESS but the video freezes after the disk swap, however the sound/music continues to play perfectly so it's just a video emulation issue.

To run the Dream Injection demo you have to make sure to load the second file on the disk (with the word DEMO in the title). If you LOAD"*",8,1 it will just freeze - probably an attempt to keep lamers from watching the demo (just kidding heh).
Posted By: Waremonger Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/16/10 09:28 PM
Also, I'm not sure if anyone is still maintaining the C64 driver but somewhere along the line the border area has gotten messed up. They used to be even on all sides (as they should be) but now the top and left borders are much smaller than the bottom and right borders. This is more noticeable on the NTSC 64 (c64).

If I had to guess I would say this started when the new VIC-II emulation was added. I'll try to do a regression test if I get some time.
Posted By: etabeta78 Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/16/10 11:46 PM
there are at least 3 people working from time to time on c64 (Curt, robiza and myself) and work is going on even if slowly

about the reported issue, some regression test would help a lot (e.g. was the issue introduced by the new VIC-II code, or by the conversion to a device, or by some other random change?)

thanks
Posted By: Waremonger Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 01:19 AM
Originally Posted By etabeta78
about the reported issue, some regression test would help a lot

Consider it done. I'll post my findings to this thread.
Posted By: Waremonger Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 02:01 AM
I see this issue started somewhere between MESS 0.133 and 0.134. The C64 related entries in the whatsnew.txt for 0.134 were:

- [C64/C128] Implemented new VIC II core [Christian Bauer, Roberto Zandona']
- [C64/C128] Fixed TAD in CIA6526 [Roberto Zandona']
- [C64] Implemented some cart type [Fabio Priuli, Roberto Zandona']

I'm not sure how I could narrow it down to a particular SVN update. Does Bobz keep an archive of his daily builds somewhere?
Posted By: Lord Nightmare Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 02:39 AM
If you can set up a local svn repository and build toolchain, you can roll back to specific svn revisions. Every rollback requires a clean build tho, which means it can take a while, butfinding a specific svn commit for a problem drastically increases its chances of being fixed.

LN
Posted By: etabeta78 Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 05:47 AM
if regression happened in that development cycle, it's 99% related to the new VIC code. I'll poke robiza to know if he's aware of the problem

Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare
Every rollback requires a clean build tho


well, usually a clean build is only mandatory if there has been a MAME update compared to the previous compile. otherwise, a non-clean compile might well work: e.g. if you rollback to rev.x and clean compile it, then you can expect to successfully compile rev x + 1, x + 2 etc. without removing obj, unless the source has been updated to a new MAME version or some big change has occurred to the include file...
Posted By: robiza Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 06:26 AM
i'm aware of the problem
yet i'm not sure when the real hardware start the border

for the demos try to turn on in the menu configuration the hack for vicii timing
Posted By: mochamame Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 06:59 AM
Originally Posted By Waremonger
I was able to get all three demos to work perfectly for me under WinVice v2.1 and CCS64 v3.7. You have to make sure you have the system in PAL mode (VICE: Options > Video Standard > PAL-G) as they will not work under NTSC (as with a lot of C64 demos).


That helped a great deal. I was trying NTSC. No wonder x64 defaults to PAL.
Posted By: Curt Coder Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 07:54 AM
Originally Posted By Waremonger
Edge of Disgrace would have probably also worked except that when you have to switch disks the emulated C64 doesn't realize the disks have been swapped.


Disk 0 and 1a have the same disk ID, and the code is looking for a different disk ID. The per-sector disk IDs are missing from a D64 file, so frankly I don't understand how VICE can run this without a demo-specific hack.
Posted By: Curt Coder Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 01:59 PM
Ok, "Edge of Disgrace" now loads in the latest svn. Turns out it was bug in my C1541 emulation, disk changes were not handled properly.

Anyway the graphics are totally messed up in the demo...
Posted By: Waremonger Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 10:35 PM
Nice! Thanks Curt.
Posted By: JoJo Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/17/10 11:38 PM
I've tried running Microsoft Multiplan (heh, C64 is not just for games! wink ) but it hangs during loading (see bug #1932)... the disk image doesn't look like it's protected - could the protection scheme rely on disk drive timings? I tried both c64 and c64pal, but no success.
Posted By: Curt Coder Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/18/10 01:09 PM
Originally Posted By JoJo
I've tried running Microsoft Multiplan (heh, C64 is not just for games! wink ) but it hangs during loading (see bug #1932)... the disk image doesn't look like it's protected - could the protection scheme rely on disk drive timings? I tried both c64 and c64pal, but no success.


It was checking for error 23 on T1S1, now it is working in latest svn smile
Posted By: JoJo Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 03/18/10 03:13 PM
Nice! Now I can plan my 1984 budget again! wink
Posted By: mochamame Re: C64 Graphics Demos, need help - 04/02/10 07:30 PM
FYI, Vice 2.2 is amazing when built with its new SDL interface, and pulseaudio works properly now. So for the first time Vice is capable of tear free smooth fullscreen video and glitch free audio.
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