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Re: Some comments #9180 06/21/04 10:33 PM
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DynaChicken Offline
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Smf,

My idea is to have a 'PLL clock' that you time off everything like in the real hardware. So unlike ZiNc where everything is timed basically on 1 instruction is 1 cycle, you set the 'PLL clock' to 33Mhz/sec and then read from cache is like 1 cycle, memory read 7 or whatever and cache miss takes 7*16 (is it 16 bytes a line ? I forgot). Everything else is also timed on the PLL clock of course, so your GPU will take time based on it and the mdec will steal CPU time etc etc.

One step more and you're in the FPGA emulation domain wink But if you pull it off, you can be proud to have beaten Sony at PS1 emulation on their PS2. They cannot get accurate GTE or GPU timings, but from what I've heard their way of making sure games work was to simply force submitted games for PS1 also to work with their PS1 emulator or they bounced them smile

Re: Some comments #9181 06/22/04 02:55 PM
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Howard_Casto Offline
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Interesting all around...

About the huge textures thing.... just as an example....

It's not really that big deal if you are willing to add harddrive based swap space to mame. Load the texture into memory using directx/ogl whatever to take each tile and save it to a individual file on the harddrive and then unload the huge texture, giving room for the game and setup a "tile pool" that checks to see if a tile needs loaded when it is called. DirectX even has ways of setting this sort of texture pool up "auto-magically".

I'll admit though it is complicated, but simple compared to figuring out emulation I'm guessing.

I think that's kinda dynachicken's point too... sometimes the hardware takes care of stuff and it is unknown exactly how it's done, even by the people who developed it. It might actually be the only way to get some games emulated.


I completely understand your point about not caring when computers are fast enough to keep up with mame, but my point was at this rate it might be less like 2015 and more like 2030 for the games that'll come out in the upcoming few years. Waiting 10 years before a game becomes playable in mame seems reasonable to me, but waiting more than 10 might actually kill the project.

Afterall, preservation aspect aside, how many developers are willing to add support for a game that they won't be able to play for more than 10 years? And assuming they don't, when the time does come that PCs catch up will the then "old" pcbs still be available.

Imho the fact that mame was catching up with some of the newer titles was a good thing. Not because it allows fighter kiddies to play kof2k3 (bad example as the neogeo is frikkin old, but still) or whatever, but because that means the games of today are far less likely to become lost forever, like some of the games of the past. The longer a game remains unemulated, especially if it's an unpopular game/system the more likely it is to become lost forever. Afterall, pcbs break, the components wear out and when a "new" game pcb breaks down that tended to be unpopular to begin with, it'll probably end up in the trash.

Re: Some comments #9182 06/22/04 04:26 PM
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belegdol Offline
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You've got the point

Re: Some comments #9183 06/22/04 06:56 PM
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etabeta Offline
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>Afterall, preservation aspect aside, how many
>developers are willing to add support for a game
>that they won't be able to play for more than 10
>years?

it seems to me that some developer do not care too much such things (the possibility to play games they emulate): anyone said aaron giles?

>And assuming they don't, when the time does
>come that PCs catch up will the then "old" pcbs
>still be available.

new pcb hardly can be lost since now there are arcade collectors, while in the mid 80s when a cabinet stopped to gain it was simply threw away (or used for a new pcb...)

imho you missed a point: mame is for preservation, not for gaming (for gaming there exist other emus as zinc smile ) take a look to

http://www.mame.net/readme.html

especially the first point...

Re: Some comments #9184 06/22/04 10:23 PM
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smf Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Howard_Casto:

Load the texture into memory using directx/ogl whatever to take each tile and save it to a individual file on the harddrive and then unload the huge texture,
Not much help if it uses all the textures in one level, unless you really like slowdown.

smf

Re: Some comments #9185 06/23/04 12:41 AM
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Olivier Galibert Online Content
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And palettized textures makes things even more amusing, too, even if pixel shaders help nowadays (you put the palette in another texture).

Edit: And of course I forgot ram-based textures. Ask Elsemi how much he loves his ram-based, palettized textures in model2.

OG.

Re: Some comments #9186 06/23/04 02:16 AM
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R. Belmont Online Content
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Ram-based palettized? It's almost faster to just go software rendered at that point.

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