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Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: hap] #116032 09/28/19 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hap
SM5A LCD delay can't be reduced. A few weeks ago, I did reduce it for SM51x games by factor two. But since you didn't notice it at all(a new complaint instead, yay), it's probably not due to LCD delay but something else. Several possibilities:

- everything on a PC will add lag(some apps more, some less), are other games on MAME laggy? Google around and you see people complaining everywhere about input lag on emulators, especially with reaction games like shootemups.
- the lag is due to input lag. Now this is a problem with MAME's old style design, where inputs are polled with each video frame and not when the game reads inputs. For example, you can't type fast on keyboard on a PC emulation driver due to the low input polling rate. A better design would be, max poll rate of let's say 500hz, then when a game reads an input port, refresh the OSD inputs.
- the lag you perceive is 'psychological', reaction time isn't like it was when you were a kid

*edit* for the 2nd one: I just tried increasing refresh rate for one of the G&W games to 120hz which should increase input polling rate too. But didn't notice any difference.



I did notice a change when hydef added lcd shadows, I'm not sure if my device is struggling but there are frame drops when i start a game up, and sometimes button presses fail to register.

Strangly enough, I'm running it on a GPD Win 2, but the processor isn't bad, but maybe running 2 instances of the gameplay is causing slowdown.

I did however notice some games do feel different, but I'm not sure how to explain it.

Edit: Yeah one of the games I noticed was Fire. The input lag seemed a lot better but then I'd have frame drops and it felt sluggish again. I remember being like "wait does this feel better, oh wait no it's sluggish, wait no it seems better" and so forth.

I guess I can try to look up the best settings for mame to run.


Originally Posted by IgorRus
notknown, can you test my version of G&W emulator for Windows? Here it is: Nu,Pogodi!
Is it playable? Have you notice a latency? Can you compare it with MAME?


I'll try after work

Last edited by notknown; 09/28/19 10:47 PM.
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116033 09/29/19 01:26 AM
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Uhh, the processor *is* bad on a GPD Win 2. Intel always loses to ARM on those low-power chips; a Pi 4 would probably whoop it's butt quite firmly.

That said, these aren't very demanding games so they shouldn't be dropping frames unless you're trying to run 4K with shaders or something.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116035 09/29/19 03:10 AM
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Watching footage of real hardware I'm noticing that whenever any screen elements move around, there's usually a moment where the character seems to completely disappear for a brief moment, between the old frame fading out and the new one fading in:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Slow-motion:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

More examples:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I think that simulating this fade-in (not just the LCD persistence) might prevent the need for any hacks that were done to avoid any segment strobes from showing up, since they wouldn't be noticeable due to the fade-in not warming up enough to kick in.

Perhaps these LCD games could make use of a shared "LCD screen" device, which would assign this kind of shader automatically?


(Also would be cool to alter its parameters over time via LUA and watch the LCD intensity getting progressively fainter while the emulated device drains its virtual batteries, but that's just me =P)


LCD artwork scans and cleanups: https://mega.nz/#F!uFYSzK7S!U-lJon9jsqyoCX_3y7_KLA
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: R. Belmont] #116036 09/29/19 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by R. Belmont
Uhh, the processor *is* bad on a GPD Win 2. Intel always loses to ARM on those low-power chips; a Pi 4 would probably whoop it's butt quite firmly.

That said, these aren't very demanding games so they shouldn't be dropping frames unless you're trying to run 4K with shaders or something.


In relativity to certain processors sure, but the 7y30 isn't "bad". 2.4ghz kaby lake with up to 15 watt tdp.
The weakest point is the integrated graphics.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...m3-7y30-processor-4m-cache-2-60-ghz.html

I can already run some Cemu (Wii U) games at full 60fps 720p so I wouldn't expect issues with emulating game & watch games.



Originally Posted by ICEknight
Watching footage of real hardware I'm noticing that whenever any screen elements move around, there's usually a moment where the character seems to completely disappear for a brief moment, between the old frame fading out and the new one fading in:

I think that simulating this fade-in (not just the LCD persistence) might prevent the need for any hacks that were done to avoid any segment strobes from showing up, since they wouldn't be noticeable due to the fade-in not warming up enough to kick in.

Perhaps these LCD games could make use of a shared "LCD screen" device, which would assign this kind of shader automatically?


(Also would be cool to alter its parameters over time via LUA and watch the LCD intensity getting progressively fainter while the emulated device drains its virtual batteries, but that's just me =P)


If the segments flash between turning on and off, you could do frame-by-frame blur to simulate the fade out without it flickering wildly.


Originally Posted by IgorRus
notknown, can you test my version of G&W emulator for Windows? Here it is: Nu,Pogodi!
Is it playable? Have you notice a latency? Can you compare it with MAME?


I don't really notice any latency. Strangly enough it looks like your emulator kind of does the frame blur thing we were talking about?

Last edited by notknown; 09/29/19 04:02 AM.
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116037 09/29/19 05:15 AM
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Lag between movements on LCDs like that is fairly common, the same thing happens if you press too fast on a calculator e.g. hammering the = key like you're playing Track & Field. I believe the lag gets worse when the batteries are getting low.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: notknown] #116038 09/29/19 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by notknown
I don't really notice any latency. Strangly enough it looks like your emulator kind of does the frame blur thing we were talking about?

Yes, of course! It is LCD simulation, with segments appear, disappear and crossfade durations.
And respond latency is maximum one frame (16ms on 60Hz monitor). It is possible to catch more than 2000 eggs.
We discussed it with hap and hal3000.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116039 09/29/19 08:57 AM
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There already is a device that supports brightness levels for strobing speed or persistence, I use it to get multiple brightness levels in the LED football games for example. MAME's SVG renderer doesn't support it though. It might help a little for the SM5A games, but not for the SM51x games(most of the G&W games) since I reduced LCD latency to around 25ms. Like I said in my previous post, I think the lag is something else. Probably the same lag as on everything in MAME and it's more noticeable on these games where gameplay is by tapping buttons instead of holding directional controls. For example Super Mario Bros on the NES(emulated), you only notice there's input lag when you do precise jumps, not when you're running around.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116040 09/29/19 02:51 PM
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Spitball Sparky has now been preserved in MAME smile

The game uses a Sharp SM510 and it's the first Super Color G&W game emulated in MAME. This is a screenshot from the game:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The inlay and game case has been scanned but the inlay plastic is combined with the polarizer so it came out a bit dark and the reflective case isn't handled well by my scanner so I've taken some photos and sent to hydef. Hopefully they can be used but there might be a need for better pictures of the game case.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116044 09/29/19 09:27 PM
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I guess it might make sense to have an internal layout for the colour overlay here (like space invaders?)

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #116047 09/30/19 12:40 PM
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It would be nice if the colours were on the SVG or some other method, yes. I had trouble just getting to where this is and it's not how I'd like. I found it problematic and awkward, but it might be the way I did it. Uploaded.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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