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Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97808 01/09/15 11:59 AM
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Christina Offline
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I think the solution the Shideravan gave is very good, especially when you remember that there are many systems with very buttons on each input, and in such cases is always confusing to configure each control attached...

Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97809 01/09/15 12:06 PM
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Shideravan Offline
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Well, I would not call it a solution. I don't know if scrollable menus is something implementable in MAME interface, but if it is, that's my suggestion wink


"A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it's not that good."
Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97815 01/09/15 02:36 PM
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R. Belmont Offline
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
problem is that e.g. with isa slots all mice have the same name (the only difference being the isa port) and all joysticks too, so you end up with undistinguishable tags again frown


That's why I said to use the parent slot's path first, omitting the host driver. So you'd get "isa3:Mouse X" and "isa5:Mouse Y" and so on.

Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: R. Belmont] #97816 01/09/15 02:59 PM
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etabeta78 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By R. Belmont
That's why I said to use the parent slot's path first, omitting the host driver. So you'd get "isa3:Mouse X" and "isa5:Mouse Y" and so on.


I'll see if there is any way to skip the intermediate slot name ("com")

Originally Posted By Haze
as I've said, it's a bigger problem.

If anything we might need the user to 'create*' the devices before plugging them in (with us automatically creating x devices with auto-generated names as a default / if specified on the commandline)


yeah but this is not something really related to the UI. what you want is to be able to "load" pre-configured pads into the emulation and this definitely belongs more to .cfg files, than to the interface itself. since I have never fully understood the logic behind our current configuration loading (e.g. who has precedence over the others when you reset emulation without a full reboot), it is off topic w.r.t. this discussion

Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97818 01/09/15 04:35 PM
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Kale Offline
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Originally Posted By Shideravan
So here my suggestion: scroollable menus for the inputs...
When you reach the input selection you will see this menu:



[...]


This solution looks a lot better than our current handling anyway. While this one ...



... is very prone to fuck up the UI window size fwiw.

Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: Kale] #97819 01/09/15 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Kale
... is very prone to fuck up the UI window size
fwiw.


I don't think having them as prefixes is the way to go, it makes more sense to have them as separators between each group.

But we currently number everything (like player inputs, hard drives, cdrom drives). Maybe for the time being, just number them.

TX Baud #1
RX Baud #1
etc

I agree numbering is pretty lame, but we seem to be saying it's ok for everything else.


Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97820 01/09/15 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
I'll see if there is any way to skip the intermediate slot name ("com")


Getting rid of dislot.c and making everything slotable will get rid of the double tag problem and hopefully the recent speed/cheat problem in carts. I have it planned out and want to get going on that next.


Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: etabeta78] #97832 01/10/15 08:03 AM
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for a MESS GUI user, it should go like this....
1. the user runs MESS and selects the system from the GUI list; the menu bar then changes to suit the system
2. user plugs in any required hardware by selecting the items from a 'add hardware' menu. the 'add hardware' menu has sub menus with grouped components for easy selection. add checks should be done on the fly to ensure it is possible to add more than one of the same item IF it was possible on real hardware and also check to see if multiples or mismatched hardware can't be added based on the current configured machine. warnings should pop up to tell the user what is wrong and why and how to solve the issue or to allow an auto-add to just fix it (i.e to add a CDROM to Amiga 3000 requires adding a SCSI controller first)
3. a menu item can be selected to save that configuration for later use
4. a menu item is selected that 'runs' the configured system

This is basically how WinUAE works and as we know it is one of the most popular emulators out there and very user friendly.
Another dedicated emulator for the Enterprise64/128 (EP128emu) works the same way.
These 2 emulators are a real pleasure to use. Whoever is doing this GUI thing should be looking at the best emulators and GUIs out there and learning from them. MESS has a long way to go to get to where they are.


Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: Christina] #97854 01/11/15 11:58 AM
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etabeta78 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Christina
I think the solution the Shideravan gave is very good, especially when you remember that there are many systems with very buttons on each input, and in such cases is always confusing to configure each control attached...

I quite like it too, but I think it would be easier to have everything in the same menu rather than in separate ones, with inputs for each device being hidden/revealed at user choice, so that e.g. you start with a list

Quote:

[root]
[root:dev1]
[root:joy1]
[root:joy2]


and by clicking on each entry you open the list of the corresponding inputs to be reconfigured (or hide them if they are already shown)... e.g.

Quote:

[root]
[root:dev1]
[root:joy1]

Up
Down
Left
Right
Button1
Button2

[root:joy2]

this will require some work before being fully functional, but we have anyway to redesign the menu handling in view of future developments (when the "root" device will cease to have a privileged role), so it might be a good moment to move in that direction smile

for the moment, I have modified the inputs to look as follows

SMS


IBM 5150 (serial mouse)


IBM 5150 (null_modem System Configs)


which is a first step towards the design above.

Next, I will if I can avoid printing the "P1", "P2", etc. parts in the slot inputs

Thanks for the feedback smile

Re: UI quirks with slots and possible solutions [Re: Guru] #97855 01/11/15 12:13 PM
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etabeta78 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Guru
for a MESS GUI user, it should go like this....
1. the user runs MESS and selects the system from the GUI list; the menu bar then changes to suit the system


This already happens: the entries in the TAB menu varies per-system: try launching a system with tapes against one without wink
They are just not in a "menu bar"

Originally Posted By Guru
2. user plugs in any required hardware by selecting the items from a 'add hardware' menu. the 'add hardware' menu has sub menus with grouped components for easy selection. add checks should be done on the fly to ensure it is possible to add more than one of the same item IF it was possible on real hardware and also check to see if multiples or mismatched hardware can't be added based on the current configured machine. warnings should pop up to tell the user what is wrong and why and how to solve the issue or to allow an auto-add to just fix it (i.e to add a CDROM to Amiga 3000 requires adding a SCSI controller first)


A menu for this exists (the Slot Device menu), but it currently is not prompted before emulation starts. Probably we should display it first by request... I will look into it

Originally Posted By Guru
3. a menu item can be selected to save that configuration for later use


Once we get other device cfg issues sorted, this will be easy, I think.

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