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I can save them out in whatever format, but that won't affect the look of the descreening much. The JPG setting was pretty high, so artifacting is nearly negligible, especially when compared to the filtering for the halftone printing. I was just curious what level of descreening I should go forward with...

I'm not sure if MAME will currently use anything but jpg for background art tho, although that could definitely be changed I'm sure...

I have to admit I didn't even know they were doing lossless LD images. That's pretty cool... smile

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MAME uses PNG in layouts by default. Pick that if you want a lossless image (when the source image isn't JPG).

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Originally Posted By Rik
I can save them out in whatever format, but that won't affect the look of the descreening much.

On the 4-in-1 picture 2 trees on the background become too blurry on the pictures №3 and №4. If it's not a jpg issue, maybe it's better to provide 2 alternative backgrounds for each game: 1 descreened and 1 not?

IMO, when the image is small, the non-descreened resized one looks better, because the colors are sharper and the offset circles aren't visible on the small image. When the image is middle-sized, the descreened one looks better due to absence of these annoying circles. When the image is large, the non-descreened one looks better again, because the small elements of the image are way sharper and aren't so blurred (dunno if due to the descreening or due to the jpeg compression). But I'm not a descreening expert, maybe different descreening filters could give better results smile

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Originally Posted By seanriddle
I haven't built from source for a while; I'll have to install the new toolset. I did change the page order from 0123456776543210 to 0123456701234567 and things look a little better. I updated the ROM file on my page.
nop, that doesn't work either =(

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I got the new tools installed (very easy- thanks to everyone who worked on that) then struggled to figure out how to build MESS. I was getting errors with TARGET=mess, but then looked through the makefile and found SUBTARGET=mess. So now I can try different arrangements myself.

The circuitry around the ROM arrays of the TMS1700 and the TMS1000 is very similar, so I think we just need a little tweak.

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Originally Posted By F1ReB4LL
Originally Posted By Rik
I can save them out in whatever format, but that won't affect the look of the descreening much.

On the 4-in-1 picture 2 trees on the background become too blurry on the pictures №3 and №4. If it's not a jpg issue, maybe it's better to provide 2 alternative backgrounds for each game: 1 descreened and 1 not?


No, none of the blurring is JPG related, that's all got to do with descreening. I can add more re-sharpening to it, but it starts to add other artifacts that make it look weird.

Part of the problem is the size of these pictures. They are using the same size halftone printing as a full-size magazine picture or something, but it's just a little 2-inch picture. When you descreen an 8x10 printed image, you hardly notice the blurring (but you would if you zoom in close on something), on such a tiny image is very noticeable.

I'm thinking, since the overall object of MAME seems to be preservation anyway, we should probably just stick with nice, clean original untouched scans. If other users want to fiddle with them, they have the PNG to work from and can do what they want. smile And, now that I've played with it in MAME a little, the halftone doesn't really look that bad. It's only noticeable because we are playing the game one such a huge screen. If you put the real game under a giant magnifying glass, it'd look the same. smile

So, I've added more files here:
http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Z_Imgs/MESS/loneranger/

There is now a 'LoneRanger0', this is the un-altered image from the Photoshop file as I was working on it (from the 1600 dpi source). I've also added .PNGs for all 4 of them (not the 4-in-1 image though). I tried putting LoneRanger0.png in the artwork file as bg.png, but it wouldn't display correctly (just a bunch of diagonal lines), any obvious reason for that?

I'm thinking if we use PNGs originally scanned at 1600 dpi, and just left as-is, that would be the best option. At the very least, include the un-altered image in the artwork in case someone wants it.

Last edited by Rik; 04/16/16 11:37 PM.
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Originally Posted By seanriddle
I got the new tools installed (very easy- thanks to everyone who worked on that) then struggled to figure out how to build MESS. I was getting errors with TARGET=mess, but then looked through the makefile and found SUBTARGET=mess. So now I can try different arrangements myself.


Yeah, I had similar issues when I got back into this...

One thing I noticed is that the build tools aren't on .git anymore, is that correct? It was a zipped file that I downloaded from the site. How do we know if they updated them? Do we just have to keep checking, or is there a repo I didn't see?

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You can download source code for each release from the site, but if you want to build interim code, you can use git. I followed the instructions here:

http://mamedev.org/tools/

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I use .git for the MAME code of course, I'm talking about the build tools: msys64-2016-02-16.exe
When there's a new version of that, how do we know? The old build tools where also on their own .git repo, so you could just pull any changes made to them every time you pulled new MAME code... Now it looks like you have to just check the website to see if there's an update?

No big deal either way, just curious if there was something I was missing...

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Ah, gotcha. That page also discusses updating the build tools using pacman.

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