Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 589
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 589
I think nobody here cares very much that your 15 year old potato computer cannot run games at full speed anymore.

If you want an emulator that runs on that piece of junk, I guess you will have to write it yourself

Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 912
R
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 912
Originally Posted by robcfg
Just report the post to moderation.

Indeed, please do that – I don't get to read this board that often, but I do take action when stuff is reported to me.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
=
Member
Offline
Member
=
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Darkstar
I think nobody here cares very much that your 15 year old potato computer cannot run games at full speed anymore.

I do not condemn precise analogue modelling of sound hardware. It is progress to solve the puzzle of understanding the inner working to add realism.

But that is to say, it is untypical for retrogamers to use a modern "gamer PC" for MAME. Very often old PCs get reused to run emulators instead of ending up as e-waste, which is an act of sustainability for preserving the planet. Hence at a point where analogue modelling suddenly starts to consume ridiculous amounts of CPU power (particularly in ratio to other MAME games of its era with similar sound complexity like Donkey Kong or Q*Bert) there needs to be a bypass switch for simpler audio rendering. In comparison, the video rendering in MAME still can be detailedly tweaked by the user to match given hardware, and nobody would request to buy a higher resolution TFT monitor instead of the installed CRT.

And my laptop is definitely less than 15 years old, however it is one of the last repairable models that got not mined with a lurking unremovable lithium incendiary bomb and permitted physically removal of the wifi plague. It is ok that Hard Drivin plays a little choppy, but a computer that can run Win10 is not junk and needs to stay supported in MAME at least for 1980th 2D and sprite zoom games.

Last edited by =CO=Windler; 11/16/21 04:43 AM.

MAY THE SOFTWARE BE WITH YOU!

{weltenschule.de}
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 373
H
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
H
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 373
A 1.6 GHz Core 2 Duo? Granted, it's a laptop, but my Core 2 Duo E7400 desktop of 2009 vintage is almost double that clock rate, I'm sure you could find something just a little bit quicker in the e-waste pile. Does it absolutely need to be a laptop?

Yes, I have my fair share of potato PCs too, case in point a single-core AMD Sempron 140. It's absolutely useless for anything quicker than PlayStation 1 hardware in MAME (it fails my Tekken 3 test e.g. can't even reach 100% even in 240p mode, let alone 480) and looking at MAME benchmarks, it might even be slower than a Raspberry Pi 4, which is just embarrassing. That said, I'm sure the crappy integrated Nvidia nForce 630a GPU is also helping it to be such a slug.

Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 912
R
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 912
Originally Posted by =CO=Windler
there needs to be a bypass switch for simpler audio rendering

But that's not what MAME is. MAME is about accuracy.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
=
Member
Offline
Member
=
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
Well, it is an archeological project. So I do not complain that my laptop e.g. reaches its technical limits at Sega polygon games or some barely optimized parallax scrolling sprite zoomers.

But with these 8bit games it simply feels terribly wrong to add a such enormous CPU consumption footprint for a minor sound improvement. It is like seeing your neighbour replacing his compact car with a Hummer that now occupies 2 parking places and protrudes onto half of the bicycle track, and the only answer you get is "Hey, I got this vehicle officially registered as a passenger car, hence I now can park here." When many people with moderate hardware can not realize these games anymore (at least without additional installation of old MAME versions in different directories) this also increases their risk of getting forgotten (even though they stay technically preserved). So please add an alternative simpler sound mode with less CPU consumption.

To me it is even hard to understand why this is a so much bigger CPU hog than other netlist analogue sound games. May there be an obscure bug that clogs the FPU? E.g. AMD K6 CPUs had the bad habit of switching the FPU suddenly into another mode when numbers (e.g. as result of repeated dividing) grew too small and hence switched the internal binary number format to keep precision. But because this special mode used lengthy microcode instead of hardware for calculation, it ran 100 times slower. There was an opcode to turn this off to live with reduced numerical precision in favour for full speed, but software that did not know it (e.g. "Visual Pinball" when balls rolled very slowly) ran into a swamp of syrup and so often got stuck like flies on a flypaper (e.g. during sound decay of a softsynth) for no obvious reason.

Last edited by =CO=Windler; 11/17/21 08:37 AM.

MAY THE SOFTWARE BE WITH YOU!

{weltenschule.de}
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 589
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 589
> To me it is even hard to understand...

So, you don't understand the goals of MAME. Fine. But nobody is forcing you to use the newest version of MAME. If you are fine with playing a bad/incorrect version of your favorite 8-bit game, by all means, use MAME 0.34 or something else. Just don't try and get support for that here (or anywhere, for that matter).

Samples will not be coming back, and everyone is happy that they won't (well, everyone except you). Just get a better computer

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 19
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by =CO=Windler
But with these 8bit games it simply feels terribly wrong to add a such enormous CPU consumption footprint for a minor sound improvement. It is like seeing your neighbour replacing his compact car with a Hummer that now occupies 2 parking places and protrudes onto half of the bicycle track, and the only answer you get is "Hey, I got this vehicle officially registered as a passenger car, hence I now can park here." When many people with moderate hardware can not realize these games anymore (at least without additional installation of old MAME versions in different directories) this also increases their risk of getting forgotten (even though they stay technically preserved). So please add an alternative simpler sound mode with less CPU consumption.

In case it really hasn’t dawned on you, what you think doesn’t matter. Your analogy is stupid, too. We aren’t going to add samples back, because it would complicate the code and add a maintenance/testing burden by having two implementations. We’re already short on developers. Really, you’re as bad as the spyhunter guy, posting long-winded rants about stuff you already know the answers to. The only thing you might succeed in doing is pushing people away from this forum.

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 692
Likes: 5
B
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
B
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 692
Likes: 5
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with either:
  • An emulator sacrificing accuracy for performance
  • An emulator sacrificing performance for accuracy


That said, MAME is a huge project, and there needs to be some organizing principles. If MAME started trying to favor performance over accuracy (even on an optional basis), where would one stop? Favoring accuracy also has major advantages from the perspective of ensuring that the emulation of common hardware components are properly vetted and kept accurate.

If you don't like this, by all means fork MAME and re-add the sample emulation. MAME will continue to function as a documentation project and your fork will appease the people that want to run the games on cheaper hardware.

Last edited by Bletch; 11/17/21 12:05 PM.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 2
H
hap Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 2
Co's posts are TLDR so I don't know the reason for the slow PC.*
When I was a broke student, I had a Pentium 100MHz back when Pentium 2 was out. I had an AMD K6 something back when AMD Athlon Thunderbird and the first Geforce was out. At least I had a Voodoo1 card so I could play some UltraHLE games.

I picked out emulators for their speed. Nesticle, Genecyst, older version of ZSNES, Callus instead of MAME for the CPS1 games, Raine instead of MAME for the Taito F3 games, etc.
If I was in your shoes, I'd get an older version of MAME, add the 'samples' games to that. Use a newer version of MAME for the other games. Accept that the reason the netlist emulation is slow for you is due to your old CPU.

*Ah I see, paranoia.
Wifi radiation harmful? -> disable it completely in device manager
laptop battery will explode? -> get one where battery can be removed, I have a laptop with Intel i5 and removed the battery (cause it's heavy weight and worn out anyway)

Last edited by hap; 11/17/21 12:50 PM.
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
4 members (Revenant, will, AJR, 1 invisible), 23 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Forum Statistics
Forums9
Topics8,993
Posts118,149
Members5,005
Most Online890
Jan 17th, 2020
Forum Host
These forums are hosted by www.retrogamesformac.com
Forum hosted by www.retrogamesformac.com