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Floppy disk sound emulation #108882
02/14/17 01:36 PM
02/14/17 01:36 PM
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Crisis001 Offline OP
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Crisis001  Offline OP
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Hello to everybody smile

I've noticed that some floppy disk samples were added to Mame...
Does anybody could tell me how enable the floppy disk sound emulation?

Thank you


PS : Sorry for my english, i'm french :p

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108884
02/14/17 05:39 PM
02/14/17 05:39 PM
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Kaede Offline
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Hello,

I suppose the samples go in the /sample subdirectory (I never used samples before).

Anyway, according to that thread http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107030 it is enabled by default (IF the driver supports it - you can probably be sure only by checking the driver source, as explained in the thread I linked).

Last edited by Kaede; 02/14/17 05:45 PM.
Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108885
02/14/17 06:11 PM
02/14/17 06:11 PM
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R. Belmont Offline
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You can run -listdevices for the driver in question and check if the floppy drives have sound emulation attached without browsing the source.

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108921
02/19/17 05:13 PM
02/19/17 05:13 PM
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Anamon Offline
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I have never heard the floppy sounds, even when the configuration implies that they should be there.

For instance, the default configuration of ibm5150 includes isa3:fdc_xt:fdc:0:525dd which has both floppysound and flopsndout connected. I have the floppy sample files in my samples/floppy directory, and I do see volume controls for the emulated sounds in the sliders, but I never hear a sound during disk access.

This is on MAME 0.182 on Windows 7 x64, but ever since they were implemented I've tried getting floppy sounds working with several versions and on many different systems, so far always without success. I wonder if anyone has actually gotten them to work yet?

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108922
02/19/17 06:14 PM
02/19/17 06:14 PM
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mizapf Offline
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Sure, for the TI-99 systems they are working perfectly.

I did not test with other systems like the IBM. Maybe try with -oslog to see error output?

Edit: If you use the ISA floppy controller "fdc.cpp", none of the floppy devices seem to have a MCFG_FLOPPY_DRIVE_SOUND(true). Have a look at src/devices/bus/ti99_peb/hfdc.cpp to compare.

Last edited by mizapf; 02/19/17 06:22 PM.
Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108923
02/19/17 07:38 PM
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R. Belmont Offline
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More importantly, the recorded floppy sounds are only correct for the TI-99's drives and are obviously wrong for a number of other systems that do have them enabled.

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108924
02/19/17 08:34 PM
02/19/17 08:34 PM
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Robbbert Offline
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Sounds are enabled in many drivers, although not all of those drivers are working.

Some that do work are trs80, excali64, vixen, mbee, kaypro, altos5, applix, dps1.

The sound level is very low, you will need to wind up the volume control to hear it.

I find it an aid when developing, to ensure that various lines have been hooked up correctly.

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108925
02/19/17 10:42 PM
02/19/17 10:42 PM
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mizapf Offline
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@Arbee: I'm not sure what you mean by "TI-99's drives". There are no genuine TI drives; you may say that the sounds are only correct for the 3.5" floppy drive Sony MPF420-1 or the 5.25" floppy drive Chinon FZ502. These are the drives that I took the samples from. Other drives sound different, of course.

About the low volume, in contrast, I have to set the volume slider to 50% so that they are not too loud.

As I said some time ago, when I find some more time, I'll design a Arduino-based floppy drive exerciser that allows us to get samples from different drives. Maybe we should think about a way to select some sample set to adapt to the drive that shall be emulated.

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108926
02/20/17 12:39 AM
02/20/17 12:39 AM
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The drive's case affects the sound nearly as much as the mechanism, is what I meant. So if you sampled drives in a PEB, there'll be different from a standalone case.

Re: Floppy disk sound emulation [Re: Crisis001] #108929
02/20/17 10:31 AM
02/20/17 10:31 AM
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mizapf Offline
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Agreed, the case is certainly relevant for the actual sound impression. In that way I have to correct myself saying that the sound of the floppy for the TI is not "perfect" but "satisfactory": I can well hear the drive spinning, I hear the head moving for single or multiple steps, and I hear the drive stopping. It does not sound *identical* to the drive in my Peripheral Expansion Box (PEB) because, as you said, the case is important, but the PEB sound is also missing (people indeed started to ask me, most likely not jokingly, whether we will have the PEB turbine-like fan sound be emulated as well some day).

Know how I recorded the samples? I removed the drive from the PEB and put it in a cardboard box, pulling out the flat cable and power cord as far as possible, and laid a microphone under it so that I could somehow dampen the loud fan of the box.

The samples are, to my impression, well enough for a vanilla floppy drive, although they do not really match particular drives. In particular, for a Commodore 1541 I would really suggest to create special samples because the plastic case has a very specific resonance. Until then, the samples still have some benefit for people who would like to know whether their drive is still working.

Creating sound from physical configuration sounds challenging at best, but likely unfeasible - music keyboard manufacturers are using sampled sound for a long time already instead of the earlier methods of trying to create a flute tone by using a simple sine wave, so I believe this makes sense. We do need some way to handle different samples, though. Maybe we have to define floppy devices that register their specific sample set, or the user may pass some command line argument. Or we tell the people to get their sample set from our website and put it in the sample directory.

I know you are less enthusiastic about the drive sounds than I am. Physical sounds are oddly controversial in people's opinion.

We have a mission to create an emulation as precise as possible, but that does not necessarily mean that we should not do anything until we find the perfect way. Remember how long it took until we had HLSL to emulate the real screen output?

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