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vectrex #113685
07/21/18 03:09 PM
07/21/18 03:09 PM
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Kaylee Offline OP
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Hi

I recently tried to run Karl Quappe on mame, but the driver seems to use the mouse to move around, thus you can't really play the game, or any game really on mame's vectrex driver.

Is there any way to get mame to use the keyboard for movement (or joystick, tried it but it didn't work)

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #113686
07/21/18 03:59 PM
07/21/18 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaylee
Hi

I recently tried to run Karl Quappe on mame, but the driver seems to use the mouse to move around, thus you can't really play the game, or any game really on mame's vectrex driver.

Is there any way to get mame to use the keyboard for movement (or joystick, tried it but it didn't work)



I tried a game, Berzerk, and it seemed to control just fine. If the crosshairs are on screen (I think by default they are), you can enter the TAB menu -> Crosshair Options -> P1 Visibility to OFF.

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #113687
07/21/18 04:02 PM
07/21/18 04:02 PM
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R. Belmont Online content
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The Vectrex uses an analog joystick, so the analog stick on a modern PS3/4 or Xbox 360/One type of controller is your best option for authentic play.

Re: vectrex [Re: R. Belmont] #113688
07/21/18 04:45 PM
07/21/18 04:45 PM
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Kaylee Offline OP
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Originally Posted by R. Belmont
The Vectrex uses an analog joystick, so the analog stick on a modern PS3/4 or Xbox 360/One type of controller is your best option for authentic play.

thanx seems something was wrong, didn't want to work this morning, deleted my cfg/ini files still didn't want to, redownloaded the source and compiled, and still didn't want to work, make a post and *poof* it suddenly decide to work

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114442
12/16/18 09:16 PM
12/16/18 09:16 PM
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Edstrom Offline
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I have played a bit with Vectrex programming recently using MAME as my prime target, of course. Out of curiousity I dusted of the old ParaJVE emulator known to be Vectrex hackers long term favorite to get some indication if what I coded was sane or MAME specific before going to real Vectrex hardware. To my surprise the test app I have written didn't work, in fact not even close, so I more quickly than planned unpacked one of my Vectrex machines and put the binary onto a Mateos burner Vectrex cartridge and inserted it:

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/vCqv-QaAFzk[/video]

As you can see MAME is doing the right thing, and is a better Vectrex emulator on this particular piece at least. Sorry for hijacking the thread but I thought we need a generic Vectrex thread and the name of this thread works for me, please move it to a new thread if needed.

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114443
12/16/18 09:22 PM
12/16/18 09:22 PM
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I'd hope we're better than an emulator that old, but then again the Vectrex driver hasn't gotten significant work in forever either (although it did inherit the new cycle-accurate 6809 core).

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114446
12/17/18 08:14 AM
12/17/18 08:14 AM
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Edstrom Offline
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Yeah, I just wanted to do some good feedback too smile I guess all official releases of Vectrex software do great in ParaJVE as well as those homebrew developed specifically for ParaJVE.

From emulation point of view I wonder how many homebrew actually work both in hardware and in MAME, I bet there are a few that doesn't work in either and if I find one that do work on hardware it can find few quirks in MAME emulation.

Or did someone already go through all those for this purpose?

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114447
12/17/18 11:18 AM
12/17/18 11:18 AM
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I wouldn't guarantee anything homebrew running on hardware, especially not if an inaccurate emulator has been dominating the scene for any period of time, see the problems with the SNES scene and homebrew / hacks done with ZSNES, to the point where the better emulators have had to add a 'broken emulation, simulate ZSNES' mode just because idiots were complaining so much that their hacks no longer worked.

To be fair, it's a problem with a lot of arcade stuff developed using MAME because MAME doesn't emulate a lot of hardware limits / exact timings (because they're unknown, and can't really be worked out without extensive testing on hardware)

Testing everything on real hardware would of course be interesting.


Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114468
12/24/18 02:07 PM
12/24/18 02:07 PM
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All i can say, is that the homebrew vectrex scene is very vivid and most of them use Parajve as their Emulator and of course the homebrews work on original hardware too.
There at least 4-5 new games each year, that are worth playing.

Just google Vector Pilot and Vector Patrol. The good Thing with homebrews for vectrex is, that there are many titles, that are better than any original games released for the vectrex, not to mention the Great music scores, far better than any original game, which consist only of bleeps and Clonk sounds.

PS: best facebook vectrex group on planet:
Vectrex fans United!
All developers are there and everyone is willing to help, just give it a try.

Last edited by u-man; 12/24/18 03:01 PM.

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Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114481
12/28/18 09:00 AM
12/28/18 09:00 AM
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Edstrom Offline
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Yeah, but I am only interested in proper emulation of the real hardware, not games with built in bugs just because they use a buggy paraJVE as their main target, they can be as helpful as they want but it is not Vectrex games they are developing if they can't be played on the real hardware, it is paraJVE games. So my post was just showing MAME being a better emulation and to trigger a fix for the paraJVE if possible, but chances are they will not fix it because it may break all the games relying on it.... but if they do more games can be played on the Vextrex hopefully. We'll see what happens, I will use MAME as my dev emulator in any case, because it is better and I am used to it. smile

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114482
12/28/18 12:40 PM
12/28/18 12:40 PM
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Edstrom, I think u-man's point was just that ParaJVE works for most homebrew, and of course people cross-check on real hardware to be sure.

It sounds like you've managed to find a rare edge case in which ParaJVE fails, is all. smile

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114483
12/28/18 01:03 PM
12/28/18 01:03 PM
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it does however sound like if the community want to really abuse the hardware they'll need a better emulator wink

although I'm not sure how much you can abuse this kind of hardware?

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114484
12/28/18 01:16 PM
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Ask byuu about how well things go when everyone tests homebrew on an emulator that imposes no limits smile

Haze: on this kind of hardware there's a limit of how much you can draw to create a coherent frame, similar to how many polygons you can draw in 1/60th of a second with a GPU (but a bit more flexible in this case). At the margins even MAME doesn't emulate this correctly (having the oldest-drawn stuff start fading out), but there's also limitations on how fast you can move the beam and stuff too.

Re: vectrex [Re: Just Desserts] #114486
12/28/18 02:04 PM
12/28/18 02:04 PM
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Edstrom Offline
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Originally Posted by Just Desserts
Edstrom, I think u-man's point was just that ParaJVE works for most homebrew, and of course people cross-check on real hardware to be sure.

It sounds like you've managed to find a rare edge case in which ParaJVE fails, is all. smile


Sure, funny thing is that I just used BIOS calls and advice on scaling from a tutorial, nothing edgy at all, perhaps I should have cut and pasted even more... but I think we should not emulate paraJVE specific games in MAME, maybe I just go through all the homebrew on real Vectrex hardware and mark those which doesn't work as unsupported in the softlist. :-)

Re: vectrex [Re: Edstrom] #114490
12/28/18 06:38 PM
12/28/18 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Edstrom
Yeah, but I am only interested in proper emulation of the real hardware, not games with built in bugs just because they use a buggy paraJVE as their main target, they can be as helpful as they want but it is not Vectrex games they are developing if they can't be played on the real hardware, it is paraJVE games. So my post was just showing MAME being a better emulation and to trigger a fix for the paraJVE if possible, but chances are they will not fix it because it may break all the games relying on it.... but if they do more games can be played on the Vextrex hopefully. We'll see what happens, I will use MAME as my dev emulator in any case, because it is better and I am used to it. smile


I think you got me totally wrong here. I did not say that the homebrew scene use ParaJVE for developing, i said a lot of them tend to use ParaJVE as their choice for emulation, but 99% play their games on the original console. If you are more interested in developing, then VIDE is getting more and more popular:
http://vide.malban.de/what-is-vide

So if you want to develop, it has way more to offer than MAME can, accuracy included. Somehow not even fair to compare the both.

In fact most homebrew stuff is exclusive to Vectrex only, with plenty of stuff which you will not see on any emulator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S47UoUtprII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiPcGK5641M

there are also very simple games, that can make you addicted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VUSy7itygU

to achieve such a score, you will spend quite a lot of time laugh

MAME is good for other things :P :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-5LWyqn6P0

Last edited by u-man; 12/28/18 07:29 PM.

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Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114498
12/28/18 10:48 PM
12/28/18 10:48 PM
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Edstrom Offline
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Sorry, I didn't intend to say you were wrong, I just stated my reason for concern regarding homebrews, but you seem to have it covered there, interesting, I will check a few of them out and see how MAME do.

On a side note I think MAME offers better Vectrex developer support including being open source but I agree that we have work to be done to get MAME as playable for Vectrex as the dedicated emulators, no doubt there.

Re: vectrex [Re: Edstrom] #114507
12/30/18 04:07 PM
12/30/18 04:07 PM
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u-man Offline
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Originally Posted by Edstrom
On a side note I think MAME offers better Vectrex developer support including being open source but I agree that we have work to be done to get MAME as playable for Vectrex as the dedicated emulators, no doubt there.

Yeah and i do not agree with that, because VIDE provides a whole developing environment exclusively for the Vectrex. While MAME has surely some developing tools, i do not think that MAME provides them, on a driver level. IMHO i see some potential in MAME approaching it the same way, like i.e. VIDE does.

Again, if you need some help for Vectrex, i can only give the advice to join the facebookgroup: Vectrex fans United!
There is simply no more vivid forum then this group in the www regarding Vectrex.

Last edited by u-man; 12/30/18 04:08 PM.

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Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114508
12/30/18 04:20 PM
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Spybook is not "the www", and AtariAge has a very active Vectrex forum where Zuckerberg can't look at your selfies.

Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114509
12/30/18 04:40 PM
12/30/18 04:40 PM
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Yes, if you have such a POV, then FB is not a option... agreed. On the other hand, you have direct contacts to developers, being it hard- or software. AtariAge is a good address too.


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Re: vectrex [Re: Kaylee] #114513
12/30/18 10:58 PM
12/30/18 10:58 PM
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Edstrom Offline
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I have tried a few homebrew now, as I am throwing a new years party with a Vectrex competition tomorrow, and they seem to work quite fine in mame, at least not a black screen so far. Interestingly enough I found a section with three games called "imperfect emulation in the ParaJVE that are also problematic in Mame: Clean Sweep, Pitchers's duel and Spinball. They all got displaced static vectors, I can't tell for the moving vectors but they seems ok. Interesting that two emulators has problems with the same binaries that works just fine on the real hardware, I am intrigued to take a look how those Vectors are drawn differently from other carts. smile

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