Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 378 of 395 1 2 376 377 378 379 380 394 395
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
H
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
A lot of the glob ones don't tell you anything when you decap them either unfortunately, especially once we're into later 80s / 90s tech. I think 'mask ROM with visible bits' is the least common of the techs.

I fear a lot of these are going to require much more advanced techniques (microprobing / microbonding to read out ROM arrays directly etc.)

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
S
ssj Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Rik
Has anyone actually played both of these? It's hard to tell for sure from the pictures on my site, but it kind of looks like they might be the same game, just with different LCD panels. The artwork on both of the games seems to suggest the object is to get away from someone/thing throwing stuff at you...
I only played Monkey Kingdom and it was long long time ago, never owned it only played on a friend's unit. It's very likely they use the exact same ROM as you say though, but they will still need to be dumped I guess so we can prove it.

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
S
ssj Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by Haze
A lot of the glob ones don't tell you anything when you decap them either unfortunately, especially once we're into later 80s / 90s tech. I think 'mask ROM with visible bits' is the least common of the techs.

I fear a lot of these are going to require much more advanced techniques (microprobing / microbonding to read out ROM arrays directly etc.)
Yeah that's true, the Gakken games seem to fall under this category unfortunately, Gakken Soccer was one of my favorite LCD games when I was a kid, but after decapping it shows no visible bits.

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 223
Likes: 3
R
Rik Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 223
Likes: 3
I don't know the exact process, but don't you sometimes also have to remove a layer (or two) of the die to see the bits sometimes? Or are there cases will that still doesn't reveal them?

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
H
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
unless it's a mask part it's not going to reveal them, even then some of them are especially difficult.

mask ROMs are basically 'set in stone' as it's part of the manufacturing process, it's more expensive, you typically have to make them in batches, once made they can't be changed, it's basically an array of fuses inside the chip. we can only see them optically *because* they're set in stone like this, the bits are physical.

for any part using regular erasable / programmable tech (or even on later 00s ones, flash tech) the bits are not visible, they're never going to be visible, they're electrical charges, not something you can see. all you do by decapping them is permanently render them unusable, with a die shot for future reference.

for smaller production runs it's cheaper (and lower risk) for a manufacturer to produce a huge batch of reprogrammable chips / dies then program them as needed than it is to produce batches of mask ROMs (which typically would have had a larger minimum order quantity) so once MCUs of that nature were an option, the majority used them as it made more financial sense than committing to a batch of mask ROM based MCUs.

even for non-glob MCUs found on arcade boards etc., the mask type is much less common.and again typically only found on earlier productions.

as I said, some of the most recent ones (from the last 5-10 years) even used flash tech, some of them are 100mhz+ ARM processors and 8meg of ROM under a tiny glob even if they're driving non-video, simply because that's what became the cheapest option (somebody I know worked on one about 10 years, and was amused by what a waste of tech and processing power it was)

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 160
Likes: 6
K
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
K
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 160
Likes: 6
Originally Posted by hap
Sean has that one too, and his has a Panasonic MN1405 MCU. What MCU is on yours?

It is the same as the ebay auction I am pretty sure; unfortunately I no longer have the boards. I bought them in the early 90's (90-91 era most likely) from all electronics. I still have the ULN2804's and 14 segment displays but the rest is long gone. I powered one up and it indeed played like an electronic scrabble game. You got your set of letters and had to form words, and it would score. Of course it couldn't check the "quality" (or lack thereof) of your words and would just score the letters you used.

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
S
ssj Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 422
@Rik: Since kevtris is around maybe you could arrange sending him that select-a-game pac-man cart for dumping? I'm eagerly waiting to have that system fully preserved smile

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 223
Likes: 3
R
Rik Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 223
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by ssj
@Rik: Since kevtris is around maybe you could arrange sending him that select-a-game pac-man cart for dumping? I'm eagerly waiting to have that system fully preserved smile
Heh, yeah, I have a whole box of games to send him...
Guess I'll get that on it's way soon. smile

Was hoping to find the one remaining cartridge, or did someone else get it already? Basketball I think...

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
H
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,702
Likes: 1
I'd still like to see the NES-on-a-Chip Intellivision Plug and Play ROM that Kevtris apparently dumped some years ago so that we can add it to MAME...

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,892
Likes: 51
R
Very Senior Member
Online Content
Very Senior Member
R
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,892
Likes: 51
I'd like to see that Famiclone Intellivision myself.

Page 378 of 395 1 2 376 377 378 379 380 394 395

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
1 members (MrBogi), 24 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Forum Statistics
Forums9
Topics9,069
Posts118,918
Members5,014
Most Online890
Jan 17th, 2020
Our Sponsor
These forums are sponsored by Superior Solitaire, an ad-free card game collection for macOS and iOS. Download it today!

Superior Solitaire
Forum hosted by www.retrogamesformac.com