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Joined: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
Smf...

That actually helps prove my point you know. smile
Really? So you're saying they should have banned VCR's in the 80's when they tried to stop video piracy? If that was your point, I didn't get it.

smf

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
As I have said before, maybe I am way off base, but it is interesting how many feathers it has ruffled.
I thought it was you that had ruffled feathers. Anyway, you are off base.

Someone who owns the arcade board and dumps the roms will have the same problems running MAME as someone who has obtained the roms illegally. If you don't mention where and how you got the roms then asking how to configure your joystick or change resolutions is not a problem.

Anyone that admits to, asks how to, or gives details on how to break copyright law is going to get a hard time.

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
How many legit users is enough? One? A hundred? That quote comes off as you saying you know a ton of people use the program you code to do illegal things, but that isn't your problem. You admit that you are not blind to the fact that many(most) people use programs like MacMAME and other emulators to do illegal things.


You have interpreted my statements 100% correctly as far as I can tell. :-) It's not my problem if you break the law. It's my problem if I help you do it. As far as I'm concerned, just one legit user is all that matters to me. I feel very strongly about MAME's inherent legality as an emulator, so if a copyright holder feels MacMAME is somehow infringing, then I welcome their lawsuit. Beyond that, I have no real tolerance or desire for people who flaunt their law-breaking, and I don't wish to aid them either.

Quote:
I think that is just a tad hypocritical that a man who makes his living making games that we all here think should never be pirated, contribute to the pirating community by coding a program that is used mostly to do illegal things.
I'm a strong believer in copyright limits and patent limits. I believe that copyright holders are entitled to a limited "monopoly" for their works (only far more limited than what our current law allows). I also believe that copyright as applies to software is currently broken - it's far too restrictive for end-users.

With that in mind, I also believe we've got laws and they should be obeyed. I'm not going to be a party to helping people break them, but I also believe that this responsibility is yours and yours alone. MacMAME certainly has legitimate uses and (I believe) every ROM supported by MacMAME can currently be used legitimately if you're a licensed copyright holder. I will defend MacMAME's right to run these to the fullest extent of my ability. Beyond that, I don't have the energy or desire to police copyright infringement committed by other people for companies which I have no personal involvement. if Taito wants to bust you for downloading Space Invaders ROMs, that's their call, not mine.

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
I think it is perfectly exceptable to speak out to the motives of those who create these programs and any like it. They are probably all good intentioned. They also see how their programs are being used and do nothing.
Perhaps the question I should be asking is this: what would you have me do? Yeah, no doubt people are using illegal ROMs with MacMAME, but there's also no doubt that people are using legal sets too. I don't see a practical way to separate the two, and I don't see why this is my responsibility.

Joined: Apr 2002
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Why are you getting mad at me R. Belmont? I am just asking questions and you attack me. You also didn't answer a single of my questions. There is nothing in your post I do not agree with. Except that I can sometimes be clever. smile

I guess you are right. The devs are completely blameless, and it is too bad that people take their good natured work and run completely amuck with it.

I just want a little honesty. I am not saying any dev makes a emulator with the sole purpose of stealing games, but it has to cross ones mind. I am just asking if that one was to write a program that in the back of their mind knew that a majority of people are going use in an illegal manner do they ever think of not doing it? I am just asking....

I take your PS to imply that the makers of MAME and what not are off the hook because a legit company had them help make a compliation. I could steal stuff from your house, get caught by you and have you forgive me. That still dosen't make what I did right.

I am just asking questions and mostly getting back scorn and no answers. I am not even saying it is a bad thing, but no one here is doing anything to say it is a good thing. All I am getting is that it is "legal".

PS: I am still waiting for your list of ROMS and all the legal ways you got them. Could be none, and if that is the case I apologize for accusing you.

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Brad...You answered your own question with your previous posts. You have obviously weighed the benfits of coding MacMAME vs the blatant piracy that goes along with doing it. You made your choice and that is exactly how I would have weighed it too. You also have views of copyrights that fit your rational in making MacMAME. I have never once said I think MacMAME was wrong. I was just arguing from the other side of the fence for a minute. Some answers are insightful(like yours) and some have been very much less. I guess all I was trying to say is that developers may not be doing anything wrong, but they are still enablers of the piracy to the extent that if not for them there wouldn't be a purpose for ROM burners or ROM sites.

Smf...
I was just trying to say that no one wants to see their original work in a less that flattering form. It had nothing to do with problems you or I may have running MK2.

I am all for you guys. It just is always funny when everyone gets worked up about ROMS.

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Considering that it is possible to buy legal copies of some Atari and Capcom games, saying that no game company likes MAME is a bit unfair.

Now I know that this isn't legal, but back when I was at university, the biggest spenders in the arcades were the same people who played the games at home on emulators. They practised at home in NeoRageX so they could do better when playing against each other in the arcades.

If anything, the illegal emulation increased the popularity of the games: King of Fighters 2000 and Street Fighter Zero 3 Alpha have such a steep learning curve that you'd waste far too much money before you could last one stage. No-one would play the games more than a couple of times before giving up. Illegal emulation let people get comfortable before paying to play "for real".

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Sorry to be the devils advocate, but as long as you leave intact the names of the roms the original poster is looking for you are still helping him/her get the roms he needs.

Joined: Jul 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
I take your PS to imply that the makers of MAME and what not are off the hook because a legit company had them help make a compliation. I could steal stuff from your house, get caught by you and have you forgive me. That still dosen't make what I did right.
I would again argue - strongly - that there is nothing illegal with MAME as an emulator. For MAME and MAMEDEV, it's not a case of doing something illegal, getting caught and then getting a pardon from a game company. MAME was legal before this, although it certainly helps to have companies explicitly acknowledge this in case another company got antsy.

Even though we *know* we're above-board, a prime motivator is not getting sued and having to try to prove that in court. To that end, licensing MAME to other companies is helpful, as is kowtowing to companies' requests to not support a certain game, as does proactively not supporting games we (somewhat arbitrarily, yes) decide are too new. Not doing these things does not make MAME illegal, but it (IMHO) helps keep companies with more money than sense from trying to pursue the point.

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Quote:
Originally posted by mangamuscle:
Sorry to be the devils advocate, but as long as you leave intact the names of the roms the original poster is looking for you are still helping him/her get the roms he needs.
How do you figure? If you own an Amidar board and dump the ROMs, you need to know at least one thing to use it with MAME - the name of the ROM set (amidar). The actual ROM names are only used for documentation purposes since MAME loads them by CRC.

In fact, since many of the individual ROM names use either the manufacturer's part # or the IC position, I'd argue that this helps board owners more than anyone else. If you've got an Amidar board with ROMs that vary slightly in CRC from what MAME expects, you've either a) got a bad ROM on your board, b) dumped your board incorrectly or c) have a new revision that we don't know about yet. If you're a casual "ROM pirate", the names are going to be irrelevant and ignored.

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