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TBC: Ok, this is gonna blow your mind then. Not only did ROM sites exist before MAME, ROM sites existed before emulators. The EPROMs used in arcade PCBs don't age particularly gracefully, so board owners ran and used ROM sites for years before PCs were fast enough to emulate Pacman in all-ASM.

Incidentally, this is why MAME is pedantic about the ROM names matching exactly what's found on the original PCB - it ensures that the dumps are easily usable by board owners to repair real machines. Ditto CHDs - CHDMAN can extract directly to a real arcade harddisk in order to repair wayward Killer Instinct machines (and several people have successfully done it).

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Thanks again for an insightful answer Brad. That makes perfect sense. Do you ever see something like has happened in the music industry, with some program makers being targeted and defeated? I guess probably not. I have only ever been curious where lines are drawn and why. I don't want to see anyone get in trouble.


Belmont...Fine and dandy. Nobody back then could leave their computer on before they went to bed and wake up with thousands of games ready to go. What you are talking about as far as I know is legal too. It is a new world, man. You keep defending illegal acts by citing legal ones. They have nothing to do with each other. If you would just admit you are a pirateer then your comments probably wouldn't bother me so much.

Is there anyway to take the playability of games out of MAME, but keep its ability to help board owners do the things you just talked about?

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Ok, I understand your confusion now.

You seem to think the fact that MAME plays the games is why distributing the ROMs is illegal.

It is not.

Running a ROM site in 1995 before emulators existed was still 100% illegal and you would be subject to the same penalties as now. The crime is unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material. Full stop.

As a result, MAME itself is and remains completely and 100% legal, *including* the full playability of games. (This is the point Brad keeps trying to make, and it was legally confirmed by the judges in both Sony v. bleem! and Sony v. Connectix). It is the downloading and distribution of ROMs without permission (excepting the uncopyrighted ones on mame.net) that is the issue.

For example, I can legally play the System 32 game Arabian Fight. I have the actual PCB the game was dumped from in a box in my storage room. The Sega police (do they wear Sonic costumes?) can come and raid me but there are no charges that will stick other than "bad taste in games", and that's not illegal. I am the #1 all-time contributor to the Dumping Project so I can probably legally play more MAME games than anyone else on Planet Earth. (Not a Guinness-worthy accomplishment, but I think I'll have one anyway on general principle).

Again, this is similar for other forms of software - if you buy a DVD of "E.T." than you can legally watch it all you want. If Brad doesn't, he can't. In no case is it the fault of his DVD player.

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I thought those old school cats used the rom sites to fix their broken boards. I understand that piracy is piracy. I also never thought that MAME running the games made MAME itself illegal. I just said that it contributes to the piracy community. And from that I wondered if it had any effect on developers and their mindset while they continue to make the emulators even though the original intent of the idea is just a speck of dust in the world of piracy in gaming.

I am sorry if I jumped down on you. I understand you have a lot invested into it and that is why you defend it. How many games did you contribute to the Dumping Project anyway?

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
Smf...
I was just trying to say that no one wants to see their original work in a less that flattering form. It had nothing to do with problems you or I may have running MK2.
I don't see how this is relevant. If you own the pcb then in certain countries, you are allowed to dump the roms. Otherwise you aren't allowed to have a copy of them at all. Whether you run them in MAME or just leave them on your hard disk there is no difference. As long as you don't break the law then whether the copyright holder likes what you do or not is irrelevant.

If you have an MK2 board and you can't run it in MAME then you've done nothing wrong by asking for help. I believe it was suggested that people shouldn't be allowed to ask for help in case they were doing something illegal.

You seem to be having trouble keeping up with the discussion, including what points you're arguing so I'm out of here.

smf

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Quote:
How many games did you contribute to the Dumping Project anyway?
You have been on this board since 2002 because of MacMame so I presume you've used the program how many arcade boards do you own.

Pics please.

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TBC: As far as the law is concerned, downloading ROMs for MAME and downloading ROMs to fix your PCB are both illegal, because in both cases neither you nor whoever's running the ROM site have permission from the copyright holder. (Exception: Midway/Williams posted ROMs for their pinball games on their own site to be used for repairs and bug-fixes, and of course in that case you have permission).

The law's a b***h. We don't always agree with it, but we do what we can within it.

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
Is there anyway to take the playability of games out of MAME, but keep its ability to help board owners do the things you just talked about?
If I own a board that is dead, but have dumped the roms from it previously, I'd like the ability to play games in MAME in order to play that game again.

You'll note that's not illegal to do either.

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Good point vitaflo...

I was just curious about the legalities of some things. I was also curious as to how devs felt about writing a program they know most use in an unscrupulous manner. Now that things have simmered a bit I am mostly getting the answers I sought.

About who has what ROMS and how they use/got them, I just asked if we could be honest about it. I think most of us have some ROM skeletons in our closets. I was never trying to be the pot calling the kettle black, I was trying point out those who do.

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Boom, while I admire your intellectual contructs, I must comment that I believe your propensity for prose matches only that of the soliloquy's in the works of one, Kevin Smith, creator and long sentenced writer of such classics as Clerks and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.

smile

Me too...

Rom = copyrighted item.
Emulator = reproduceable device.

It would be like suing mp3 player makers because their devices are able to play mp3's that were downloaded on a P2P.

The reason P2P's are getting in trouble legally is because they're giving a method for people trading things which are most likely illegal.

If this bulletin board were to, in any way, support trading ROM's, then it would be venturing into illegal territory.

It's not about being "honest". It's about "Don't ask don't tell" for the guys who develop the emulators. They have to maintain a chinese wall between themselves and the people who might chose to illegally use their products.

It's like asking a gun dealer to be "honest" that someone will eventually murder someone with his gun. He knows that. Everyone knows it. But, it's not his fault unless he loads the bullets and helps him aim... you know?

Jon

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