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Marc Mame...

Your point about the availibility of ROMS is really good. I guess the only difference I see in an emulator and a program like iTunes is that iTunes is just the thing you play your music on, and the emulator is taking the place of a phyiscal thing the company made to sell in the first place.

I think this pertains more to programs like BA and Bleem than to emulators of older things. Nintendo sells GBA so they can make money from the games that are sold on it. For someone to come out with a thing that eliminates that cost for the consumer is wrong. Even if only 2 people chose BA or Bleem over a GBA or PS 1/2 it is wrong. With iTunes you just steal the music. With an emulator you don't just steal the games, you steal the systems. But like others have pointed out, it is all been deemed legal, making it a mute point.

I do like the idea of a iMAME store. It will probably never happen though.

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Not necessarily true. Xbox and PS2 are sold at a loss and the profit comes from games, so if MS/Sony can get away without losing on consoles and still get royalties from game sales for games played on emulators, they come out ahead. Trouble is, most people don't buy games for their emulators.

Calculators are different, the device is sold at a profit, and software is cheap/free. But emulators for calculators don't make the cut for use in the field, anyway. They're only really useful as development tools.

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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBoomCamel:
I guess the only difference I see in an emulator and a program like iTunes is that iTunes is just the thing you play your music on, and the emulator is taking the place of a phyiscal thing the company made to sell in the first place.
Not sure about that. I feel that music companies want to sell physical CD in the first place. CDs in a box with a nice design and a booklet. I guess Music and CDs were never "meant" or "designed" to be ripped and played as files on a computer. Since they never find a way to prevent that, they were *forced* to accept to sell immaterial products on the net, but it doesn't mean that they approve.


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Nintendo sells GBA so they can make money from the games that are sold on it.
Like you pointed out, the gaming industrie makes money out of games, not by selling empty consoles or cabinets. If they were still making money by selling their games for an emulator rather than their own systems, I still can't see what's wrong with that. My guess is that they are really afraid to loose control over their products (Copying / pirating / support for emulator's bugs they don't own etc...). I guess (hope) it's only a matter of time.

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For someone to come out with a thing that eliminates that cost for the consumer is wrong.
If you still buy them the games you'll play on those emulators, I can't see what's wrong with that.
PSX emulator from Connectix were on the shelf for a long time before Sony bought and then killed it after beeing tired of loosing lawsuit after lawsuit. At that time, it was easier to play a pirated PSX game on the (moded) real thing than on the emulator. wink

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With iTunes you just steal the music.
Even if you can, you have *every* ways to NOT steal the music you play on iTunes.

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Even if they do sell at a loss, it still isn't right to compound that loss. You can't convince Bic that stealing their razors is okay as long as you buy the blades.

You can build your own razor for the blades though. I think that is the argument to why emulators are legal. The only difference is that making your own razor doesn't make it possible for you and millions of others to tap into a mass underground supply of free razor blades. I know MAME doesn't make the games availible to you, but does increase the likely hood you will seek them out.

Why shouldn't companies be concerned about losing control of their products? Even you believe in the legality of emulators you have to understand their concern.

Like Marc Mame pointed out earlier, these arguments are a little different for MAME because the thing people are stealing is not an easily accessible resource. But does it still make it okay?

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Actually, most consoles only lose money at launch now (a redesign or two to eliminate the costliest things that developers aren't using cures that), and even that isn't universally true (the Gamecube was profitable on day 1). Of the 3 current-gen consoles only the Xbox has consistently lost money (Sony was able to force them to cut prices faster than they were able to cut costs - that's one of the advantages of a custom chipset vs. off-the-shelf PCs).

Incidentally, at any company other than Microsoft the amount they lost on the Xbox would've triggered a major shareholder revolt.

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Your argument seems to be along the lines of "What kills a man? The other man or the bullet?"

Crude analogy but it works in this case.

Emulation has been proven time and again to be legal. It's what you use the emulator for that's the legal gray area.

If you download Gridlee, Poly-Play or Robby Roto from mame.net and play them on your favorite MAME variant, you are 100% in the right.

If you download Donkey Kong from wherever and play it on your favorite MAME variant, Nintendo will not be pleased. Moreover, if you don't own a PCB of Donkey Kong, or have permission from Nintendo to use it, you are in the wrong.

In the end, it's up to the person whether they want to make the moral decision to seek out and find these games and play them.

There are thousands of games that MAME can emulate that will never be seen in an arcade again and with a large number of those, nobody is sure who owns the rights to them. Maybe there should be a push to find those and seek the rights to make them Public Domain, like the Apple ][ and C64 folks have. That way the legalities on some of these games can be resolved.


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Quote:
Originally posted by EvilWraith:
Your argument seems to be along the lines of "What kills a man? The other man or the bullet?"
Well, usually it's the loss of blood that does it. wink


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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
Quote:
Originally posted by EvilWraith:
[b] Your argument seems to be along the lines of "What kills a man? The other man or the bullet?"
Well, usually it's the loss of blood that does it. wink [/b]
Legally it's when brain activity stops. I say it's their own damn fault.

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iTunes for MAME ROMs...this would be a good thing and I would fully support it. Frankly I'm surprised that game companies wouldn't jump on board. It wouldn't take anything away from putting out new Greatest Hits collections for every new console that comes along, so what gives?


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It exists, and it's called StarROMs . Only some early Atari ROMs are there, but it's something.

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