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#18407 12/29/04 11:25 PM
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Tis' just a rumor, but it's a fairly popular one... and one that even ThinkSecret is behind this time.

Could be the perfect "innards" for a MacMAME home arcade methinks. wink

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Very cool! It won't be out for at least a few months, but I'm looking forward to it already.

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It could indeed, but as long as you can buy a high speed PC for the same sort of money that'll still be better value for a MAME box.

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I agree....Pc have a low cost only for play mame. With 500 euros you can buy a good compu....

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OK, maybe so, but it'd be better than any other existing MacMAME option, eh? wink

I'm a bit hesitant on this rumor... but it really does seem like the perfect time to introduce the long heralded, low-end Mac.

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EDIT: Double post. I think I'll blame Safari. wink

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It would be mine. laugh Even at the rumored 1.25Ghz G4, it'd make a great living-room hooked-up-to-the-TV Mac just to offload watching videos off of my TiBook. And I'd finally have an always-on Mac to remote into.

I still play more MAME on my "slow" TiBook than my fast Athlon, though. It's a convenience thing (and I rarely play the newer games...I'm more of a Dig Dug and Gorf kinda guy).

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This could be great for when I upgrade my Console Emulation Station, if it's as small as it says. Wonder if there's an AGP slot in it?

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If it has a big disk then it would be perfect for keeping the homedirs on and easier to run backups from than our powerbook. Definitely interested to see what it is...


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I can't imagine a new machine today would ship without one, even a low end. We'll see anyway.

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Depends on what you consider to be a "big disk".
If the price point really is $499, which really would be the amazing part coming from Apple, then I would expect at least a 40 gig. Of course I would prefer an 80 gig smile . Time will tell...

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These days, even 80GB isn't very big. I can't remember whose law it is: "As computer storage grows larger, applications will grow proportionally larger."

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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Bannister:
I can't imagine a new machine today would ship without one, even a low end. We'll see anyway.
Maybe it will finally have a PCI-Express port.

I should stop drinking, I know :duh:

Anyway if it hasn't at least an AGP port the machine will lose a lot of its potential.

Edit : Oh, you were talking about the hard drive, sorry :shiver:


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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
Depends on what you consider to be a "big disk".
40 or 80GB would be plenty. It would be fun to set up NFS and give me a little experience doing some OS X admin. If it looks good on the telly then that would also be super -- it would be like having a MacMAME console! Of course this is assuming it's going to be pitched as a set-top box. I'm betting it wouldn't be easy to make the DVD-ROM region-free though. Can't wait to see what MacWorld Expo yields in the way of announcements.


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I'd just like to take this opportunity to say, " Told \'ya so. " wink


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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
I'd just like to take this opportunity to say, " Told \'ya so. " wink
Only when I see the stuff on the Apple site. Although I would love to give you props for being right on this one.


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For all you now, Steve is a big MacMAME fan and spotted Nathan's little post. He though,"Hmmmm.... it could work." So, it's not that Nathan was right, I think he just got lucky. :p

Or conspiracy theory: Nathan = Steve Jobs.

Anyway, I'm still reeling from a New Year's bash so Happy New Year!

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Quote:
Originally posted by Fast Cash:
Or conspiracy theory: Nathan = Steve Jobs.
But doesn't that contradict that Nathan was pretty anti OSX until recently?

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bakasama:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fast Cash:
[b] Or conspiracy theory: Nathan = Steve Jobs.
But doesn't that contradict that Nathan was pretty OSX until recently? [/b]
It's a cover I tell you! A cover!

/me runs away... laugh

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
I'd just like to take this opportunity to say, " Told \'ya so. " wink
Gee, that Mac looks like a Playstation 2

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Spot on Nathan. I'd wager that Apple has designed the xMac after your "friends" sketches to the tee. Re-reading that thread (yes, I know that's pathetic) we were pretty solid on a couple of those guesses. Of course if you throw enough crap at the wall, eventually some if it will stick. wink

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Assuming this is true, all I have to say to Apple is IAFT (its about, er, um, time). Have 2 friends ready to buy one of these out of the chute.

Mike

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I don't know. A headless iMac could be pretty useful, a 1.25 GHz G4 seems awfully weedy though. Even more so by the time such a machine (if it exists) is on sale.

Even the lowest end cheapo IBM compatibles take a big old whiz over a 1.25 GHz G4 these days. Using a low end G5 wouldn't make it significantly more expensive.

I bet they skimp on the memory too!

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All this talk about mac reminds of the discussion at the ambrosiaSW boards. Someone posted a pic of that mac.



It's actually looks like the drawings that Nathan posted in the other thread.

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ooh, pretty. wink I think that would sell quite well to the PC crowd.

I've decide that it's going to come in the G5 flavor as well... say maybe 1.6ghz.

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My main theoretical concern is how to construct my home network. Currently I've got a Netgear DG814 for my DSL modem and I'm using an Airport (snow) as a wireless bridge, so the DG814 is doing DHCP and the Airport just passes on that address. I tried having the Airport run DHCP as well, but that broke a lot of networking stuff. Ideally I'd just set-up a new "server" node the same, but if I want to serve NFS, my sysadmin brain is saying that it should have a fixed IP, but my Appleuser brain is saying that OS X will probably somehow store additional information about the server and create an equivalent hosts entry based on MAC address rather than IP, so it doesn't matter what the IP is as long as it has the same hostname when it reappears. I suppose if I have to I can see if setting the Netgear to issue fixed addresses will work through the Airport bridge setup, but I'd rather not go pissing around with it if I don't have to.

I still don't have my OS X Panther for UNIX Geeks book yet, so I don't know the real answer. Anyone?


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Well, instead of starting up a whole new "Expo Keynote speculation thread", I thought this would be a good enough place to see what other supposed goodies you all think that Apple may be announcing next week. There are sure a lot of possibilities floating around the rumor sites.

My guesses for the keynote (no particular order):
  • The headless "iMac Mini" with the specs showing up on most rumor sites (1.25 GHz G4, and such). My guess is that it may actually be introduced as the new eMac, and there will be a new low-cost 17" LCD and 17" CRT to go along with it. The CRT will be around $149, the LCD will be $249 - $299. (Do a quick Froogle search, and you'll find monitors in that price range.)
  • iWork - the successor to AppleWorks - will be demo'd. It'll ship with Tiger, or be available for purchase then. It'll include Keynote, and some other spiffy new app. Maybe iCook - Apple's recipe organization solution. Or not. :rolleyes:
  • The FireWire GarageBand interface will be demo'd by some rock star I've never heard of.
  • Steve will tell how many iPods they sold over the holidays. It will exceed their estimates by about 10%.
  • They may announce an updated 5 GB iPod mini, but if they do, it will only be in passing. It's not a major revision.
  • I'm still skeptical of a flash-iPod. But then again, they're still a big part of the market in some parts of the world. If Apple can do one right, we'll see it, and Steve will rub it in the noses of every other manufacturer on the planet. "We wouldn't do one, unless we could do it the right way." That sort of thing. $149.
  • The XSan and new XServes may get a passing mention. If so, some tech geek will demo some sort of XSan thing that looks cool to about five or six people in the audience. But it will look really cool to them.
  • Steve will tell us how well the G5 iMac is selling, and that it's above expectations. He will personally thank me for buying one, and tell me that I saved the company from the brink of utter ruin. Well... maybe not. But he still owes me one anyway. wink
  • iLife '05 is coming, with some updated new apps. Probably shipping with Tiger. It would be pass?ゥ to still be shipping iLife '04 in 2005, y'know.
  • Tiger will get a big demo, showing off more widgets and a couple of new main features. Steve will announce a tighter guesstimate for a shipping date, if not the actual date. My guess - May 24. (Since they'll want to get it out the door so they can still go see "Revenge of the Sith" on opening day.)
  • We'll be told (again) how many songs iTunes has sold, and how big Apple's marketshare is. U2 will be mentioned somewhere in there.
  • We'll get an update on how well the Apple Stores did this Christmas. Probably really well, thanks to the iPods.


That's an awful lot of stuff for one keynote, but I think it's pretty likely. Steve will start out with the sales figures for the stores, tunes and pods, possibly introduce the new 'pod, move onto Tiger and any other new apps, and wrap it up with the new eMac/miniMac/PS2.

Either that, or Apple's stock is going to take a major dive on Wednesday.

So... what do the rest of you think?

(And stay tuned... if Apple streams the keynote, I'll have the live play-by-play here on the message board, Tuesday at 9 AM PST.)


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I suggest that "some rock star [you]'ve never heard of" might actually be Bono and/or The Edge from U2.

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Headless iMac will be the "one more thing".

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
I suggest that "some rock star [you]'ve never heard of" might actually be Bono and/or The Edge from U2.
Who? wink

Anyways...

It looks like some rumors are on the mark. Apple is bustin\' out the lawsuits against some rumor sites about some of the stories being run.

Should be an interesting week.


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Hmmm, it looks like somebody is too close to the truth. I didn't know Apple had a secret police.

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The thing is - if Apple doesn't announce all rumoured products, their stock value will plummet. They've got no choice but to sue.

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Quote:
and there will be a new low-cost 17" LCD and 17" CRT to go along with it. The CRT will be around $149, the LCD will be $249 - $299.
I think there's zero chance of a new CRT from Apple. Even a new 17" LCD is a long-shot, and I very much doubt it.

The iPodorola may get an outing, though, which would be interesting.

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So the question is...

Is Apple suing because the rumors have actually unveiled their upcoming plans ie., low-end headless Macs, cheap displays, flash based iPods, iWorks and an actual attempt at gaining market share?

Or is it because the rumors are way too good per usual, and after Steve announces speed-bumped eMacs, price-dropped Ipod minis, and one last thing... some minor new features in Tiger... the RDF will drop, he'll get booed from the stage and Apple's stock drops back down to a nice comfy $20? wink

Since I'm the glass-half-full type, I'll go with the first one, but one thing is for certain. We'll know in less than a week.

For the record, here's what I see coming...

て「 Flash based iPods seems to be the next logical step (not that that means much to Apple sometimes) and I'd love to see the rumored specs of 1gig - $149 and 2gig - $199, with the Mini bumped up to 5gigs. This would really fill out the iPod line and leave little room for anyone else to compete with Apple.

て「 iWorks I'm 50/50 on. Again this makes great sense for Apple to have since Appleworks has so lapsed, but if it's too much of a direct competitor to MS Office I fear the worst... simply put, I don't know how well a cheap Mac would sell to Big Business if it doesn't have MS Office on it.

て「 The cMac (Cheap ass Mac) The $499 Mac box is just too good to be true, but I think Apple's put this move off long enough and with the success of the ipod and in-roads to the Windows peeps, the timing does seem to be perfect. The only part that concerns me is the matching low-end display. They could rely on people hooking up their current displays (that has been the stab against Apple's love with the AIO design) If this is to work the way Apple likes it though, they need that piece of the puzzle as well and It's hard for me to imagine what that will be like (size, quality, price) when their current low-end display is 20" for a cool grand. Can they make a 17" for $299?

て「 The iSatellite thingy, sounds like Apple got all pissy about that rumor too so maybe we'll see it soon with a big update to Garage Band.

て「 A big iLife upgrade. Won't ship until Tiger, but I bet they have some worthy upgrades to the suite coming.

て「 .Mac simply because it needs some serious help. This could be such an important part of the Mac experience. iSync, iCal, iPhoto, Homepage, iMovie, Address Book, etc. can all be so much better if they'd just make .Mac seamless and snappyび「.

て「 iPhone... no way in Hell, but I bet Stevie will be happy to show us Motorola's new phones that work with iTunes. And that will be the big part of this announcement... iTunes songs working with something other than the iPod. Monopoly? What monopoly?

As always we're set up for a "reaaaaaly biig shooowww" or a really big disappoint. Maybe I've been drinking a tad too much 'o the Koolaid recently, but I think Apple will really deliver this time. It might be a good time to buy some APPL. wink

EDIT: for clarification.

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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
The only part that concerns me is the matching low-end display. They could rely on people hooking up their current displays (that has been the stab against Apple's love with the AIO design)
I think that Apple must provide a low-end display for it. Apple would never break with their tradition of not being able to supply their own complete package to buyers - at least as an option. For one thing, Steve wouldn't permit it - stick a beige or black monitor onto a sleek, white miniMac? No way. Especially in their retail stores or onstage at the Expo. Of course, it will be mentioned that people can plug any monitor into it anyway, but Apple will certainly have their own option for first-time computer buyers who don't own a monitor, or people looking to dump their dusty old CRT for a nice, new LCD.

I'm not 100% sure on the CRT, but I think it's at least a possibility, given that Apple is already selling three NEC/Mistubishi CRT monitors through their online store (17", 19" and 22"), and they've kept a CRT around in the eMac. Also, there have been rumors of the next eMac getting a higher quality 17" CRT, so this could be it. They're already making a case for the eMac, so it wouldn't be a stretch to see it modified slightly for the miniMac's monitor. It would fit in with the look of the G5 iMac and current (soon to be former?) eMac. Speaking of the G5 iMac, I can see them using the 17" monitor from the low-end G5 iMac in a thinner, white enclosure, for the mini-Mac. They'll have to price them competitively in order to sell them, but whether they'll be truly cheap though, is doubtful. But they'll be better quality than the run-of-the-mill beige/black things you can buy at Best Buy or wherever.

Since all Apple has to really manufacture are the cases for them, there's no reason for them not to make some sort of monitor available with an Apple logo on it.


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Well it looks like the iPhone might be a possibility. Link.

Sounds good to me. Wonder if Apple will be lending any design help on these Motorola products.

EDIT: Here\'s a photo. Looks like Apple hasn't helped out on the design yet. wink

EDIT: That might not be a current photo as it appears Moto didn't actually show the proposed phone, just talked about it.

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Really looking forward to the product announcements on Monday!

I recently converted another Windows-owning friend to our beloved platform and he can't wait to fill his virtual shopping trolley with Apple goodies! smile

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Quote:
Originally posted by Voonplatz:
Hmmm...
That looks like exactly like the location for the last set of leaked shots for the G5 iMac... which means its either the best hoax ever or the new hardware has the stupidest iName possible.

I'm really annoyed, my brilliant idea of revolutionising communications with electronically controlled cyborg carrier pigeons has been totally destroyed now that the name 'iHome' is taken. wink

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This looks like a hoax to me; if not Apple has made some fairly serious design flaws here with what is supposed to be a set-top box: no firewire port on the front for ease of connectivity of camcorders (besides I cannot imagine a system this low in price-point having dual firewire if the iMac and eMac don't!); ditto on usb ports for connecting game controllers, keyboards, etc. We also seem to have a slot-loading optical drive, which is consistent with Mac design of late, but I don't think as suitable since it restricts people to loading 12cm optical media, which seems a little short-sighted in a more general use appliance. I would hope Apple would have a dual-size tray loader, but I could see them not doing that. We appear to have what looks like a headphone jack on the rear -- also not too clever, and no apparent digital audio output to connect to a receiver, which really puts doubt into the validity of this. Lastly I don't see a video out port, but I guess that could be the box between the phone jack and USB ports, althought it doesn't look like any I'm familiar with. Aside from that, I thought the button on the left was the power button; if so why is it present on the front and rear view?


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Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
(besides I cannot imagine a system this low in price-point having dual firewire if the iMac and eMac don't!)
The eMac and iMac both have dual Firewire and three USB ports. I can believe Apple sticking essential ports in impractical places, all the designs of the last few years have done this to maintain a clean uncluttered appearance.

From the look of the hardware it looks like a similar idea to Sony's PSX variant of the PS2. I can well believe this is an attempt to capture a chunk of the home media centre market. With OS X free from the heavy handed 'big brother' digital rights features a Windows based machine would have, it looks like a very attractive prospect especially if there is a G5 inside. smile

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Looks fake. For more reasons than I want to spend time writing about.


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Quote:
Originally posted by sweetpea:
The eMac and iMac both have dual Firewire and three USB ports. I can believe Apple sticking essential ports in impractical places, all the designs of the last few years have done this to maintain a clean uncluttered appearance.
[/QB]
Ah, I didn't realize that. Well, even if they want the appearance of an uncluttered fascia, it would be daft to put key ports for input on the rear of the box where it will be difficult to get at when you're going to try to pitch this system at people who don't necessarily have computers already.

Being able to point to the ability to readily connect a camcorder to the front of the unit in the same way you could to a video recorder, but also have the ability to do non-linear editing via iMovie is a marketing no-brainer. Ditto for using it as a games console by having USB on the front or some kind of audio input for hooking up portable music players. Not having ports on the front/side seems to contradict Apple's reputation for style _and_ ease-of-use.

But, as Nathan said, this thing looks like a fake. If the picture looked as good with a hi-res .png image I'd still doubts, but the poor image quality makes this impossible to consider genuine.


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Having looked at it a couple times, I'll say this:

If it IS real, Apple seems to have fallen again into the trap of assuming its users are the same as all users. Most PCs (even the cheapest) have multiple hookups in front.

Not only that, but I find it strange that, as big as the box is, that you have the "iHome" sitting on top. Wouldn't you want the thing in the middle, with styrofoam ALL AROUND the box? And the same on all sides, let me add?

That CD slit doesn't even look real.


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Well, Apple is no fun. No live webcast of the Expo, apparently.

Fine.

See if I buy another computer from them.

This year.

Also, recent rumors of a random-play display-less iPod sound... well... let's just say I'm not looking forward to what their stock price does.

I guess we all have to wait for Apple to update their website tomorrow (unless someone wants to sneak a video celphone into the keynote and give me a call). wink


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I'm very interested in what will happen to APPL tomorrow. In the past it usually takes a dive every time Apple announces anything, anything at all at Mac Expo.

I think this year might be different though, as the Street has been a bit more kind with all the iPod hype. Maybe APPL actually goes up... assuming that whatever is announced doesn't totally suck. wink

BTW, any guesses on which one of our favorite Apple fan sites gets the first coverage? And how they do it?

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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
BTW, any guesses on which one of our favorite Apple fan sites gets the first coverage? And how they do it?
This seems to be providing up to the minute news of the keynote.

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MacNN is covering it, and their page is actually loading. Everyone else is swamped.

[Edit] The keynote starts at the bottom. New stuff is at the top.


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Nothing terribly exciting or unexpected yet.

The Reality Distortion Field doesn't work at all without pictures. wink


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Just in case you can't get a server to show up... this is from AppleInsider (which seems to be working, while MacNN's has gone down):


iLife '05 works seamlessly together, Jobs says. It will be priced at $79 and go onsale January 22. It will be bundled for free on all new Macs.

GarageBand has been updated with realtime music notation, 8 track recording, pit & timing fixing, and more. The application will also let users create their own loops. Jobs invites musician John Mayer on stage. [...you can see some mysterious and unannounced Apple application icons in Steve Jobs' dock as Mayer performs a demo of loop creation...]

iDVD will gain animated drop zones, one-step DVD creation, and support for all DVD formats (R, +R, -RW, +RW). Jobs performs demo that is met with applause.

iMovie HD being introduced. iMovie now edits HD video, offers Magic iMovie, MPEG-4 video, new transition & effects, and more. Jobs proclaims 2005 the year of HD video as he begins talking about HDTV camcorders. Jobs invites the president of Sony onstage. Reiteration that 2005 will be year of HD in the home.

iPhoto has gained project folder subfolders, support for MPEG-4 movies, and new editing tools, including quick thumbnail view of photos in library. A new Calendar view allows searching by day/month/year. The new version of iPhoto also supports RAW, a feature found in high-end digital cameras. iPhoto also now integrated with Dashboard for quick, easy editing of both JPEG and RAW photos. Jobs performs demo. He shows off impressive editing tools for rotate/zoom. Demo shows how users can view/organize MPEG movies. Dashboard integration instantly offers more advanced tools. Additionally, iPhoto sports advanced slideshows and new way to create photo books: soft cover, four different sizes, double the number of pages, ranging $4-$30. Jobs also announces that Apple will cut price of iPhoto prints to $0.29 per print, half the current price.

iLife '05 features major upgrades for each application.

Jobs introduces Final Cut Express HD video editing suite. The video editing software adds LiveType for animated tiling, and the recently discontinued Sountrack technology for custom music. The application seamlessly integrates with iMovie files and Motion files. Final Cut Express HD is priced at $299 and will be available in February. $99 upgrades will be offered for Final Cut Express owners.

Tiger is on track for delivery in first half of this year, Jobs says... "Long before Longhorn."

iChat 3.0 demo. Jobs reiterates that iChat 3 will allow up to 10 simultaneous audio conference. Using H.264, multiparty video conferencing supports up to four people. Jobs offers demo of video conference with Danika (from Paris -- and boy do our forum readers love her!), Phill Schiller, and Scott. Full screen view of all four parties. You can see realtime reflections around table.

Dashboard will contain widgets for Calculator, Stickies, Address Book, iTunes Controller and more. Jobs announces some new widgets: Unit Converter, Discitonary & Thesarus, Stock tracker (Laughter as Jobs displays increases in AAPL and a drop in MSFT), weather, yellow pages. Jobs quickly displays various widgets (Shows AAPL stock quote). "We're down today," he says. "We still have a lot to go in the keynote." Jobs now demos Unit conversion widget, which draws more laughter as the Euro->Dollar and Dollar->Yen conversions are displayed. Jobs demos Weather Widget, which cycles through various weather scenarios, and notes the open architecture for Widget creation.

QuickTime 6.6 has been renamed QuickTime 7. It represents the largest upgrade to the technology in the last 7 years and will ship with Tiger. To date, users have downloaded over 30 million copies of QuickTime 6. 98% of the downloads have been by Windows users. Some features expected in QuickTime 7 include live resizing, full-screen overlay, and complete MPEG-4 compliance. The most impressive feature, however, is support of the H.264 codec, which is expected to be used as basis of next-generation DVDs. Brief demo performed. QT is scalable from cell phones to HD.

Jobs moves on to overview of Mail 2.0. The application has seen a complete overhaul. Its been integrated with Spotlight search. Mail 2.0 can perform instant search in over 100,000 different mailboxes. "Smart Mailboxes" watch for keywords and automatically creates alias links to incoming emails that meet the keyword criteria. Mail will also deliver an on-screen interface for managing incoming photos (adding to iPhoto, viewing thumbnails, etc.)

Spotlight being previewed. Jobs says Spotlight is superior to google because its built into the Mac OS at the core. It also has a better interface, because its 'built by Apple,' he says. Jobs encounters bug in Tiger OS while performing the Spotlight demo. "That's why we have backup systems here."

"No time for all of them," says Jobs. "...Will discuss a few."

Mac OS X. Tiger on track to ship in first half of this year, sporting 200 new features. Feautres include improved Windows connectivity, .Mac sync, Safari RSS detection, Automator.

Jobs claims Mac OS X 10.3 Panther has been phenomenally successful, with over 14 million active users.

Jobs begins overview of iMac G5 line, boasts about positive press reviews surrounding the product line.

Jobs showcases London Apple Store on Regents St., showing photos from the store. It has become 2nd highest grossing store. More stores expected to launch in England later.

Over 1 million visitors a week to Apple's stores.

This is the first keynote to use HD projection.

Steve Jobs takes the stage and begins discussing the company's retail strategy.

Loud applause.

The lights have dimmed.

Attendees have been instructed to shut off their cell phones.

U2's Vertigo is being played inside the hall.

9:06 A line of attendees still extends outside the keynote hall. The keynote should begin when all are seated.

9:05 We'd like to take this opportunity to thank all our readers who e-mailed us regarding KFC's Chicken Little situation. Those who remember Chicken Littles know they sure are scrumptious.

9:00 Attendees are still filling the keynote hall.

8:45 Keynote set to begin shortly.


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More from AppleInsider (also MacRumors seems to be working now):

Pages. Apple has created its own word processor, which it is calling "Pages." Pages offers footnotes, 40 Apple designed templates, drag & drop rearrangement of templates, and more. The application presents a very simple starting point. Phil Schiller is invited on stage by Jobs to demo the new app.

Keynote 2 delivers cinema-quality presentations, animated text, powerful animated builds, presenter display, self-running kiosks. Jobs claims he uses Keynote for everything.

iWork. Jobs introduces the successor to AppleWorks, iWork. The productivity suite is built with Mac OS X and iLife in mind, he says. It will include two applications: Keynote and Pages.


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From MacNN:

Apple introduces Mac mini. New member of Mac family Slot-load Combo optical drive. Play DVDs, burn CDs. Queit. Tiny, FireWire, ethernet, USB 2.o, both DVI/VGA output. Very tine. Height is half the size of an iPod mini. BYODKM. Bring Your Own Display, Keyboard, Mouse. [10:35 PT]


Jobs introduction new application called "Pages" as new word prcoessor. Footnotes, etc. 40 Apple designed templates. Drag & drop rearrangement of templates. Very easy starting point. Phil Schiller invited on stage to demo new word processing application: Pages. Powerful and easy to use. Designed by Keynote team. Pages support PDF, AppleWorks, and PDF. iWork is the next-generation AppleWorks. Will ship on January 22 for $79. [10:26 PT]


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First one is $499: 1.25GHz 256MB/40GB More memory and larger hard drive for $599. Will ship on January 22. Ships in a box smaller than the regular iPod box. [10:36 PT]


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Here's a few rambling thoughts as I gloss across the Expo coverage...

Wow... everything is true so far... color me impressed. smile
て「 updated iLife
て「 iWorks
て「 Mac Mini - of course that's the name... duh. wink

First off... it's FREAKIN' TINY!!! Smaller than a iPod Mini - are you kidding me?!?!

Second - $499 for 1.25GHz 256MB/40GB... under whelming specs, but for the price and the size... I'm still impressed.

FWIW, I think this will be the point of contention - size vs. price vs. specs... sadly I don't need one at all... but I still want one. wink

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pic of the mini.

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iTunes: iTunes has sold more than 230 million songs to date. Apple now sells 1.25M songs per day...a rate of 0.5B per year. In 15 countries, represents 70% of music market. Since thanksgiving, Apple has sold 1 million Pre-Paid songs. Apple has retooled iTunes Essential section. [10:39 PT]


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Looks like a Cube that's been chopped in half. At least they got the price right this time. wink


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iPod: Apple sold 733,000 iPods in 2003 holiday quarter. Apple sold more than 4.5 million iPods in 2004 holiday quarter. 500% growth from 2003. Apple has sold 10M iPod. Over 8M sold in 2004. Jobs shows 10 millionth iPod made. Was kept, not sold. 3 of top 5 consumer electronc products at Amazon were Apple (iPod, iPod mini, and Prepaid iTunes card). Over 400 accessories avaialble for the iPod. [10:42 PT]


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(MacnN)

Apple is working with BMW on the next-generation adapter. Mercedez, Volvo, Scion, and Nissan will also offer iPod adapters in 2005. Alpha-Romero and Ferrari will also offer iPod integration. Mercedes will show CLK and CLS on the show floor. [10:44 PT]

Great Steve... what about my '02 Subaru? :p


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So they just chopped the cube in half. (price and size)


-Mahuti

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So I guess the iPod Mini... um, Mini is next and then we're done. Wonder if AAPL goes up... 67.98 right now.

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I'd say chopped in 1/8"s... wink

Actually, you're right... here's a pic.

http://webpages.charter.net.nyud.net:8090/mattman7/mini.jpg

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iPod marketshare. Flash Market sales cut in half from Jan 2003 to Jan 2004. New iPod mini double iPod marketshare and cut the Flash market share in half. Current market: powered by non-rechargeable batteries. Tiny displays, no click wheel make a "totured interface. [10:48 PT]


New iTunes-enabled phones due this Spring from Motorola. [10:46 PT]


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I gotta say... I think the iPod Shuffle is genius. Could be the most simple portable music player ever. And at $99... going to buy AAPL now. wink

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Apple introduces iPod Shuffle..flash based player. Smaller than most packs of game (gum?). Weighs the same as 4 quarters (less than 1 ounce). Volume/Up dow. Simple LED to provide feedback. No display. Either shuffle or album-based playback. USB 2 transfer connector under connector at the bottom. 12-hour rechargeable battery. Mac/PC compatible. Ships with a laynard that connects directly to bottom connector for easy carrying. [10:52 PT]


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Keynote's over. Apple's site has the new stuff up.



Dunno. Can't say it does much for me. But then again, I was way wrong about the iPod and iPod Mini. :rolleyes:

I suppose if I didn't already have a 'Pod, I'd probably consider one.


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John Mayer invited on stage for live entertainment. [11:00 PT]


Jobs thanks Apple employees for all the new products and hard work.[Applause] Thanks families and spouses of Apple employees. [10:59 PT]


IPod Shuffle joins Apple family of iPods offering lots of choice. Jobs show new commerical to be aired. May be available at the Apple Store in San Franicsco. [10:58 PT]


iPod shuffle features new iTunes with auto-fill that will automatically select songs for iPod shuffle. Can also be used at flash storage device. 256MB usually cost $149. iPod shuffle in two versions: 512MB ($99) and 1GB ($149). Neon green box. Now shipping. Apple offers four accessories: Dock, Battery extender (20hours of battery life), Car adapter--each $29. Due in next four weeks. [10:56 PT]

See? I was right. Some rock star I've never heard of. :p


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Dude. The shuffle is going to DESTROY the rest of the MP3 player market. I already have an iPod and I had to resist the urge to go out and buy this new one.


-Mahuti

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Totally agree... I don't need the iPod Shuffle or a Mac Mini... but must... resist... urge... to buy... for no... reason. wink

And of course AAPL is down... $66.13.

If it hits $62... BUY! BUY! BUY!

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Well, I didn't so much resist as... called the Apple Store and found out they won't be stocking them here until Aprill 22.


-Mahuti

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This is pretty funny.



And the footnote says:

2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.


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Damn, if only the mini had S-video out, I could use it for my emulation station. Anyone have experience with the DVI to S-video adapters? I can't imagine they're very good. smirk

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Huh? The Apple Store says January 22.

Better go order one. wink

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OK. I just succumbed. I bought one of each.... 1 gb and 512 mb. Someone please help me. frown

laugh

Good thing I've been needing a usb flash drive AND my wife has a birthday coming in a few days.


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Ha! I think it's going to be a very good year for Apple...

So, anybody think they'll be updating the Powerbook line quietly anytime soon? wink

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Quote:
Damn, if only the mini had S-video out, I could use it for my emulation station
I was thinking the same until I saw this

Mini Svideo/Composite adapter

If the link doesn't work it's an adapter for the mini to display its screen on a TV with S-Video/Composite inputs.

Thinking about making it a hub for my emulation. Would look great next to my gamecube/PS2.

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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
So, anybody think they'll be updating the Powerbook line quietly anytime soon? wink
UNGHHH! Soon, I hope.

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According to the tech specs page, it works as a jump drive, too. [Edit: Mahuti beat me to it.]

They're going to sell a ton of these things. The little switch on the back to turn it on/change play modes is brilliant. I was wondering how they were going to do that.

As for the Mac Mini, I still think Apple should make/sell their own cheap monitor for it.

But they did cut the price of their keyboard and mouse (now $58 combined).

I'm wondering if I can get some sort of discount on iLife '05 or iWork since I just got my Mac about a month ago.

Probably not.

Well, that's what educational discounts are for. laugh

(And the stock price is creeping up...)


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$99 bucks, eh? This might just be my magic number. And I love the simplicity of it.

And I'm glad they didn't say anything about speedbumped iMacs/Powermacs. That means my investment will remain top-of-the-line for at least a few more months before becoming obsolete. wink

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Quote:
Originally posted by foxglove:
Quote:
Damn, if only the mini had S-video out, I could use it for my emulation station
I was thinking the same until I saw this

Mini Svideo/Composite adapter

If the link doesn't work it's an adapter for the mini to display its screen on a TV with S-Video/Composite inputs.

Thinking about making it a hub for my emulation. Would look great next to my gamecube/PS2.
I saw that as well, the question is now good is the quality. I'm not real happy with the s-video quality on my Powerbook, certainly not next to the ATI 8500 in my G4 (which is phenominal), so I don't have too much hope for a DVI to s-video adapter to deliver anything close to the quality I'm looking for. :hmm:

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Nathan~

Yup, I guess we're not getting our matching cheap display eh?

FWIW, you can upgrade iLife for $19.99 if you bought your Mac on or after today's date. Bummer, as I just got my mom an eMac for X-Mas. Oh, well.

I can't wait to hear Jobs boasting the sales numbers after the first day or two... like hot cakes I'd say. wink

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I can get iLife for $59 and iWork for $49. Not bad at all.

(Apple's stock just plummeted from 66.77 to 66.18! We're doomed! The new Mac and iPod are utter failures! No... wait, it's back up to 66.28. Whew! The downward spiral was halted just before complete catastrophe set in. Woo hoo! It's back up to 66.48! Apple's no longer "beleaguered"! Nooo! 66.38!! Why is this happening? Has the world gone mad?! I can't stand it anymore! I'm jumping out a window!! Wait... this window doesn't open. Well, maybe I'll just step outside the front door.)


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Ya know... in all seriousness (ya don't hear that from me too often) I think this might actually have a positive effect on market share... ya, I said it... Market share!

I guess the first Big Business order that Apple decides to pimp in the media would be a good start.

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FWIW てャ

The S-Video adapter is excellent - I've used the same dongle atleast with a Powerbook and the quality is ... as good as S-Video can be.

If you're lucky, your next TV will have DVI in (HD) and you'll probably feel the slight S-Video jab above is warranted.

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Astera, is the s-video quality on the adapter better than the Powerbook's built in s-video? If it's like you say it is, I may need to try it out. The s-vid quality is the only thing holding me back from getting a Mini.

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The last time I hooked up a computer to a TV was with the RCA outputs on my Powermac 7200 in 1998 and it wasn't so great. So I have no idea if technology has improved or not. As long as the quality with that adapter is as good as a SuperNES I'll be happy.

The iPod shuffle definitely has me tempted as well. I liked apples showing this time around. I'm almost glad they didn't show a cheap monitor, as I just bought a non-apple one a month ago.

Was a little surprised they didn't show an apple made Audio Interface to replace Emagics old emi6|2m.

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Hopefully in Europa they'll offer a dongle to convert DVI to RGB SCART which would be a definite improvement over S-Video (just shy of Component video in North America/Japan); otherwise I guess I can live with it.

Well, we seem to be getting jacked on the price at ャ」339 for the low-end unit and ャ」398 for higher spec, but no surprises there.

I don't know what the port is on the far left, but this is definitely not a set-top unit as predicted. Still I will be sorely tempted...


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Cheap macs => good. Very good.

iPod Shuffle? No screen? So I have to press forward 120 times to get to the song I want?

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First my home football club (Exeter City FC) draws Manchester United (0-0) for a replay at St James' Park, and now the Mac mini and iPod shuffle! laugh

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Well, if you leave it on "shuffle" you have a 1/120 shot of hitting it. wink

I don't have any interest in the iPod Shuffle as "an iPod". But as a USB drive that plays songs, it has some appeal (not enough to buy one, but if I used a USB drive, then maybe). Apple would still rather sell iPods/iPod Minis to people that want to actually be able to control their music, so this is more of an iPod companion, than a replacement. A way to get people who want an iPod to buy something with an Apple logo on it, and then hook 'em into buying the "real thing" later.

I wonder if it lets you skip ahead an album (or playlist) at a time? That would be useful.

Re: S-Video. It'll always be pretty low quality compared to any computer monitor. You're dealing with NTSC video (or at least, we are here in the States), which even on its best day isn't suitable for reading text, or displaying computer graphics. Even if it were component, it wouldn't help much, since you're dealing with pretty low resolution (480 vertical lines). So if you're running at any resolution higher than that, it will be scaled down and fuzzy, even on the best TVs. If you're running at 640x480 in order to have 1 to 1 pixels, then your screen size will be pretty unusable in OS X.

If (someday) they support HD output, and you have an HD TV, then things would be a lot better.


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The keynote is up on Apple's Quicktime page now. Enjoy the RDF!


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You guys get a load of the power brick for that bad boy?!

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/mac_mini_jan2005_480.html

I guess it really is the Cube's lil' brother... wink

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OK, so I just put my money where my mouth is... bought me some AAPL. Just thought I'd give you guys a heads up, so when the stock drops through the floor tomorrow... you'll know why. wink

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Indeed. Notice how the photography, other than the VR, carefully avoids showing that the power supply is nearly half the size of the machine? smile

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
If you're running at 640x480 in order to have 1 to 1 pixels, then your screen size will be pretty unusable in OS X.

If (someday) they support HD output, and you have an HD TV, then things would be a lot better.
*sigh* You're probably right. Ah well, this unit really wouldn't be good for playing MacMAME on a tv, would it? Probably better off saving up for another powerbook or an ibook. By that time I sure they'll be running Tiger and bundled with iLife again (not sure why they stopped doing that in the first place as it was a major selling point of OS X - enabled systems) -- or maybe Apple will finally have a set-top box!


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Still, all things considered, the brick isn't "huge". You could stick it out of the way on the floor, presumably. (Assuming Apple made the cord long enough.) Not quite iMac-elegant, but for $499, they never promised an end to desktop clutter. wink

I was just talking to someone at work who thought that the MiniMac would make a great computer for a PC user who wanted to keep their PC and get a Mac. Apple should sell small, cheap KVM switches, so PC users could just put the MiniMac on top of their tower, stick a KVM switch on to of that, and presto - dual system.

(Oops. Just checked. Apple does have one on their Mac Mini Accesories page. But it's $129, and doesn't match the look of the Mac Mini at all. They need something about half that price.)


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Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
Ah well, this unit really wouldn't be good for playing MacMAME on a tv, would it?
It'd probably be fine. Most MacMAME games have a resolution well below 640x480, and are going to be scaled up in OpenGL anyway. So for classic games - no problem. For use as a computer monitor though, S-Video is unsuitable.


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I did a comparison of the two systems I'd most likely buy when I buy my next computer: The 17" 1.8 GHz Imac and a 1.42 GHz Mac Mini. Both had these similar specs:

80 Gigabyte Hard Drive
Super Drive
Airport Extreme added.
512 Mbyte Ram (from Apple - nothing on DataMem for the Mac Mini yet)

I calculate that for an extra 800 dollars, I get a newer-generation chip, the ability to add RAM to my computer and a screen that comes with the computer (which allows me to have semi-portability, as I could plug in and type on my computer wherever I went).

If I were into guerella warfare against my PC-worshipping brother, I could see sending this item to him. But to buy? Not really, as the Imac does better. As a gift, though...I'd take it, even the $499 version (I can always buff it up).


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BTW...

Here's your kudo's, Nathan. Even though the computer is more horizontal than vertical, still the idea was yours, so kudos for the concept.


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I guess we was wrong about the design. It's smaller than I expected and it has enough specs to run World of Warcraft out of the box. At least the 599 dollar model. That is, if you have a keyboard, monitor, and mouse ready to use.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
[QUOTE]It'd probably be fine. Most MacMAME games have a resolution well below 640x480, and are going to be scaled up in OpenGL anyway. So for classic games - no problem. For use as a computer monitor though, S-Video is unsuitable.
I'm thinking in addition to MacMAME I would use it as an NFS/print server/backup server, but the question is: is 256MB RAM enough to do all that? I'd only be supporting one node, so I'm sure the non-MacMAME stuff would be fine, but is 256MB RAM enough to run the games that come with MacMAME? I'd also have to get the bluetooth keyboard/mouse and bluetooth/airport modules, so the price quickly rises when you start throwing in options. If I could work nicely with the minimum memory spec, I could probably justify it since I'd only use a head to play games and do the initial config -- assuming Remote System Control would allow me to do normal maintenance stuff.

Whoah, bin that idea, Remote sytem Control is a few hundred quid alone! Well, I suppose I could use accessibility options to make the system more usable on a lower res display; it's just a shame they don't support better than s-video output to TVs...


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I saw HD content captured from an EyeTV 500 played back on the Mini Mac (the high end model with faster CPU) at full HD resolution and no apparent frame dropping. It was gorgeous. Since many HDTV's today have DVI in, you're set to use this little guy as an HD PVR.

Did you know most HDTV's have EDID data on the DVI port? You plug them into a Mac and the Mac knows the resolutions (phosphor RGB values, etc.) supported. Go ahead, mirror or extended Desktop....

Someone needs to make a wireless (Bluetooth) X-Arcade controller so you can sit back and play MAME on your TV from the comfort of your couch.

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True, if I had a spare ャ」2000 I could buy a 30" LCD set that was also xVGA compatible and I'd be cool, but if I could buy a 30" LCD tv, I'd just get a 15" Powerbook with a 128MB video card...


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Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
I'm thinking in addition to MacMAME I would use it as an NFS/print server/backup server, but the question is: is 256MB RAM enough to do all that?
I'd never run OS X on anything less than 512 MB.

Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
it's just a shame they don't support better than s-video output to TVs...
You'd have to have an HD TV to gain any benefit. There's no point in having anything better (ie. component output) for standard def TVs.


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I just got done watching the keynote on Quicktime.

A few thoughts:

Steve's RDF is doing fine. He seems to have made a full recovery from his pancreatic cancer. It's good to see him healthy.

Having the President of Sony on stage may have only gotten a passing mention most places, but this is a huge thing for the video industry. If Sony and Apple are indeed working together, this could really accelerate the acceptance of HD in filmmaking.

Steve Needs bifocals. Everytime he sat down at the Mac, he switched glasses.

Steve says "boom" alot. I think there's a drinking game in there someplace.

The live text wrapping in Pages is awesome. That is a nifty app. It would be really cool if they could make it output HTML. It'd be great for web page design.

GarageBand is amazing. Unfortunately, it seems to require musical talent.

The keynote is worth watching just to see some of the new iLife apps in action. If more people who were considering buying computers saw that, they'd think, "Why buy anything else?" I hope Apple is running demo videos of iLife in their stores, so passersby could just check 'em out and see what those things can really do.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
Still, all things considered, the brick isn't "huge". You could stick it out of the way on the floor, presumably. (Assuming Apple made the cord long enough.)
Don't count on it. The brick on my 30" (yes, I do) has a cable that is only just long enough to put it on the desk beside my G5. No way I could put it on the floor.

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Anyone remember the Apple/Bandai Pippin?

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It's too bad there is only 1 memory slot. The 256MB model is out of the question, the 512MB is priced reasonably, and the 1GB has a sharp increase in price.

Does anyone know if 512MB enough to run a half dozen or so apps without a major performance hit?

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Yeah, the price for 1GB was nuts even by Apple standards. I'll take my chances with 512MB. (Oh yes I did).

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LOL! So when will the Zinc port be released? smile

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:

The live text wrapping in Pages is awesome. That is a nifty app. It would be really cool if they could make it output HTML. It'd be great for web page design.
It actually does, or at least you can export the page you made as HTML. I can't imagine the HTML code is very good, and it's certainly not like using a real WYSIWYG editor, but it's something I guess.

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
(Oh yes I did).
Woot! Will MAME get ppcdrc now, I wonder? wink

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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
...Having the President of Sony on stage may have only gotten a passing mention most places, but this is a huge thing for the video industry. If Sony and Apple are indeed working together, this could really accelerate the acceptance of HD in filmmaking...
Was it just me or did that whole segment with the Sony CEO drag on, and on, and on... made you really appreciate Steve's stage persona, eh? wink

I thought that whole scene was pretty funny though. Now if Sony would just adopt AAC and iTunes... now that's the kinda coop I'd like to see.

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It'll happen. At the same time Microsoft discontinues Windows.
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Sony's only recently given up on ATRAC3 ruling the world. Give them time :-)

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Quote:
Was it just me or did that whole segment with the Sony CEO drag on, and on, and on...
I don't know, I think it seemed more exhausting because of his accent. No offense to anyone intended, but when I watched the Quicktime stream I had to laugh because with the audio out of sync with the images it looked like a poorly dubbed Gamera film when the Sony president came out. :-)

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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
Was it just me or did that whole segment with the Sony CEO drag on, and on, and on... made you really appreciate Steve's stage persona, eh?
He started out fine, but obviously lost track of what he wanted to talk about, and couldn't recover gracefully. It's always a bit tough watching that because on one hand you feel bad for them, but on the other hand you just wish they'd give it up and walk away.

Still, the fact that he was there is pretty amazing. There's been a significant rift between Apple and Sony, and it's nice to see them at least exchanging platitudes about each other.

Also, I work with video, and HD is such a fragmented mess right now, anything that can help stablize it and better define standards is a big step in the right direction. Sony is the Microsoft of the video industry, and are heavily pushing their HD agenda, so they're recognizing that Apple is in a unique position to put Sony's HD hardware into the hands of a lot of users. It's mutually beneficial, maybe even more for Sony than Apple.

Panasonic can't be too happy though. wink


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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSabre:
Anyone remember the Apple/Bandai Pippin?
Yep. It was right around the time of the 3DO (another overpriced console nobody bought).

What's interesting, is that it's essentially the exact same concept used later for the X-Box. A stripped-down computer in an ugly box used for playing games. Only Microsoft has enough reserves to lose the kind of money necessary to make it work on some level. (Note: their X-Box division still hasn't turned any profit.)

It's interesting to see how often Apple was just a little too far ahead of the curve. The Pippin, the Quicktake, the Newton. All product concepts that became huge successes long after Apple had to give up on them. They were ahead of the curve on printers (the LaserWriter and cheap inkjets) and scanners (the Thunderscan), too, but those were successful products for Apple in their day.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:
GarageBand is amazing. Unfortunately, it seems to require musical talent.
I don't know much about it, but can't you use it for non-linear editing of audio tracks? That seems to be a missing aspect of the Apple built-in software that I recall from the OS6/7 days, unless it's been there the whole time and I'm just totally clueless. I use Wiretap Pro to make mp3s from RealAudio broadcasts of BBC Radio 3 shows (Late Junction to be specific) for listening later (I use a 256MB Sandisk my wife got me for Xmas because she saw it super-cheap in the States; I use it for file transfer primarily). If I like the show I'd like to be able to edit it down into individual tracks for recording to MD, but if there's no method for doing this in OS X already I'd just as soon dump it all and just edit it on my portable.

I agree with the other poster: 512MB seemed very reasonable and that's where I'd go, but 1GB was out of control (although that's what I would prefer). The price is still just too high for me to justify. Maybe if it had more video memory or a G5, then at least I'd feel I had some future-proofing there since Apple is clearly moving towards 64-bit-land and they're not going to do that on the G4.


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Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
Maybe if it had more video memory or a G5, then at least I'd feel I had some future-proofing there since Apple is clearly moving towards 64-bit-land and they're not going to do that on the G4.
My non-technical guess is that Apple had to use the G4 to facilitate the Mac mini's small footprint (external power, etc notwithstanding). The G5 still doesn't run cool enough. Or am I mistaken?

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I'd say price was more relevant than heat for this one. G4s are old hat at this point and a fair bit cheaper than G5s.
-R

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I'd say chip availability has a lot to do with it, too. I don't know if IBM is cranking out enough G5s to handle another Mac yet.

At some point, I expect all Macs will get a G5, but not until IBM can iron out their production woes.


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Quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Strum:


GarageBand is amazing. Unfortunately, it seems to require musical talent.

Actually, Garageband doesn't require any real musical talent to make impressive sounding songs, if you use the canned sample loops - that's the coolest thing about it. As long as you are logical about where you start and stop loops, and what instruments go together, the program syncs it all up nicely.

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If they did an RGB Scart output then I think it would make a sizable difference. Certainly decent enough for big screen play with MAME...

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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSabre:
Anyone remember the Apple/Bandai Pippin?
Got one sitting right behind me, even with the floppy attachment that plugs into the bottom (for development work!) Never powered it on. Apple wanted me to put Dark Forces on it, but my employers at the time felt that supporting the Mac was a niche enough market (and a year later, felt that even that was too niche!)

Aaron

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
Yeah, the price for 1GB was nuts even by Apple standards. I'll take my chances with 512MB. (Oh yes I did).
Heh, if I could come up with a good enough use for one, I'd probably pick one up too. smile They made a mistake only putting one memory slot in, as 1GB DIMMs are hella expensive. I just bought one from Micron to put in my new Dell laptop and it was $330. So the $400 add-in price isn't too unexpected, given the typical add-in markups. If they had two slots, 1GB would have been a much more reasonably priced option.

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Given that it's small, fanless, and 802.11g'd, I think it'll make a nice box to stream ripped videos off my NFS server to my home theatre rig (and to blast MP3s and the occasional "m1 marble" as well). The lack of digital audio out does hurt though - if it had that it could just plain replace my occasionally ill-tempered Bravo D1.

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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronGiles:
Got one sitting right behind me, even with the floppy attachment that plugs into the bottom (for development work!) Never powered it on...

Aaron
What do you mean "Never powered it on"??? You mean you've never used it, but kept it all these years? That's just plain crazy man! wink There's gotta be a story behind that...

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Quote:
Originally posted by patmcfar8:
Quote:
Originally posted by AaronGiles:
[b]Got one sitting right behind me, even with the floppy attachment that plugs into the bottom (for development work!) Never powered it on...

Aaron
What do you mean "Never powered it on"??? You mean you've never used it, but kept it all these years? That's just plain crazy man! wink There's gotta be a story behind that... [/b]
Well, when you get a dev machine from a company, it's not like they ship it to you with a bunch of games. And given that we got the system shortly before release, there really weren't any games to get. And then, quite frankly, I was never interested enough to track down a TV to plug the darn thing into (we were mostly a PC development house at that time). And finally, well, I'd have to find a game that I thought was worth importing from Japan for it. Can't say that I ever found such a beast. smile

And of course I kept it for the novelty factor. How many people do you know who have a Pippin? wink

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toffs are careless!!

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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronGiles:
They made a mistake only putting one memory slot in, as 1GB DIMMs are hella expensive.
The best way to go is to get the 256 model, and pick up a 1 GB DIMM for it here. ($199 at last check.)

You end up eating the cost of the 256, but it's less than half the cost of doing it Apple's way.

Of course, how easy it actually is (or isn't) to replace the RAM in there is another matter.


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Aaron~

I guess I see your points... I'm just dumbfounded that you've never even turned it on. Guess you never developed anything for it, eh? wink At least you can sell it on eBay someday. wink

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this has peaked my curiosity a bit. Here's a few fun Pippin links if anyone cares. It was a pretty impressive system for its time, but like many Apple products, just a bit too expensive.

http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/pippin.htm
http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/faq.html
http://www.microsoft.com/mind/1096/FLUX1096.asp
http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Apple_Banda...pin_page_2.html

And you're right about the games. Hard to find and expensive to import from Japan. And, yes, as I type this I realize that most of you already know all this. wink Sorry.

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Quote:
The lack of digital audio out does hurt though - if it had that it could just plain replace my occasionally ill-tempered Bravo D1.
it would be cool if it was built in, but supposedly the airport express outputs digital 5.1 and can auto detect if a digital coaxal is hooked up, of couse that another 125$ for the airport express and the 40$ for the audio cable pack, on top of the cost of the macmini, but if your goin the wireless route i guess you could kill multiple birds with one stone....

i think the mini is cool as heck and when its time to upgrade or anyone in my family to upgrade i will aim them towards this thing, most of them have monitors etc already and this is definatly their price point.

what kind of pvr like options do we have on the mac though?

are their other remotes beside the keyspan, and possibly the salling clicker if you have the right phone?

and as far as people wondering about output resolutions, it says it can do HD, so the svid/composite debate will be moot in a few years.

i like to see some comparisons to this thing and some HTPCs price wise and usage wise (dvd playing/recording, pvr, mp3/music playing, etc)

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I don't need PVR functionality (I have a hi-def DirecTiVo), just playback. So it works there. Apparently ATI makes a USB TV tuner/video in thing that would go well with it for PVR purposes though, and some folks have noted that FireWire 5.1 audio output exists too (although there may be a/v sync issues with that).

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BTW, I just got a shipping notice from Apple. I'll post something when it shows up and I can't figure out MacMAME ;-)

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Quote:
I don't need PVR functionality (I have a hi-def DirecTiVo)
Those are $900+ (and of course the monthly subscription to DirectTV or Tivo). In San Jose I'm pulling in over a dozen HD channels for free over the air.

I've had a MythTV box running for over a year now and I want to replace it with a Mac/HD solution. MythTV is amazing - no subscription fees, automatic commercial skipping, editing.... Sadly I've been unable to get an HD tuner card to work with it so it's stuck in NTSC-land.

But a Mac Mini + EyeTV 500 (and better software than what ElGato ships) and I can toss my PB/MythTV box out the door.

Or rather make it into a PC/Mame machine....

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Quote:
Originally posted by AaronGiles:
Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSabre:
[b] Anyone remember the Apple/Bandai Pippin?
Got one sitting right behind me, even with the floppy attachment that plugs into the bottom (for development work!) Never powered it on. Apple wanted me to put Dark Forces on it, but my employers at the time felt that supporting the Mac was a niche enough market (and a year later, felt that even that was too niche!)

Aaron [/b]
Aaron,

What were your thoughts on the Pippin at the time? Thanks.

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
BTW, I just got a shipping notice from Apple. I'll post something when it shows up and I can't figure out MacMAME ;-)
Careful, it's got a GUI. Unless Brad has changed things significantly, you won't be able to type "macmame sxyreact" at the command line. wink

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Quote:
Originally posted by DarkSabre:
What were your thoughts on the Pippin at the time? Thanks.
"What were they thinking?" and "Cool, there's a little tiny trackball on the controller!"

Since I never powered it up, it didn't go much beyond that. smile

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I just tried it:

Code:
raptor:~ richardb$ /Emulators/Arcade/MacMAME/MacMAME.app /Contents/MacOS/MacMAME sxyreact
Didn't work. Or rather, it opened up the front end. Oh well smile

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That's one of the things that needs to happen when/if the front end is ever redone-- separate the MAME core into a cmdline executable so 3rd party frontends can run it.

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Got my mini Saturday morning. The Apple Store wanted $150 to put in 512 MB, so I settled for the 256 MB it came with.

I added a video adapter to play MacMAME on my TV. The S-video picture quality from the mini is noticeably better than my PowerBook 667 and plays all my games at full speed. I mostly play games from the 80s, the most recent being Smash TV from 1990, so I can't say anything about the performance on anything newer.

My MacMAME set up:

Mac mini (1.42 GHz, 256 MB)
DVI to video adapter
Monster iTV Link to connect S-video and audio
24 inch RCA TV
X-Arcade
MacMAME 0.87b using OpenGL

Since this will be used as a family computer and everything is running just fine with 256 MB, I will probably leave it as it is.

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At what resolution are you driving the svideo?

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I got just mine too, and I will call him mini mac. C&C Generals runs at full speed.
1.25Ghz G4
256 MB
1024x768 Definition: High
andy

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My Mac Mini has the hostname "calhoun". Fans of Peter David's "New Frontier" series will understand.

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
My Mac Mini has the hostname "calhoun". Fans of Peter David's "New Frontier" series will understand.
That's a a good series. smile

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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnoud:
At what resolution are you driving the svideo?
The TV defaults to 800 x 600, 60 Hz refresh rate.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Bannister:
I just tried it:

Code:
raptor:~ richardb$ /Emulators/Arcade/MacMAME/MacMAME.app /Contents/MacOS/MacMAME sxyreact
Didn't work. Or rather, it opened up the front end. Oh well smile
At the risk of me completely missing the joke wink , what you really want is something along the lines of

Code:
open -a /Emulators/Arcade/MacMAME/MacMAME.app ~/Documents/MacMAME/Roms/sxyreact.zip
That's not a complete solution to the running-from-the-cmdline problem, though.

PtR

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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
My Mac Mini has the hostname "calhoun". Fans of Peter David's "New Frontier" series will understand.
Too bad you specified what it meant. Otherwise fans of the classic Mac game Glider (by john calhoun, all lower case) would have had a completely different interpretation. wink

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Heh. If I'd done something like that it would've been after classic Apple II games - I never owned a Mac before this due to lingering John Sculley ill will wink

Incidentally, the DVI out looks quite nice in 1280x720 on my 50" Samsung DLP. Once I figure out how to get the thing to mount gozer (my NFS server) MacMAME should ensue ;-)

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So... anybody get shafted by this morning's news? :rolleyes:


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I didn't get 1 GB RAM, Bluetooth, or a SuperDrive, so those don't affect me.

Also, here's a review of the Mini by one of the top PC hardware sites. It's generally quite positive, and I'll add that the 1.4 GHz model is also whisper-quiet.

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Quote:
Originally posted by MacScoops:
If they did an RGB Scart output then I think it would make a sizable difference. Certainly decent enough for big screen play with MAME...
Maplin has a VGA-SCART adapter, but it seems intended to connect equipment (DVD/Video) up to video projectors or computer LCD displays that have VGA input -- not sure if this would work with the DVI-VGA adapter, but it might be worth a try. At ャ」60 it's not cheap though.


Sean Aaron
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Quote:
Originally posted by rwp2084:
Quote:
Originally posted by Arnoud:
[b] At what resolution are you driving the svideo?
The TV defaults to 800 x 600, 60 Hz refresh rate. [/b]
Is this a bog-standard direct display tube or an LCD tv? 800x600 seems pretty good for a standard tube tv. Is it good enough to read email, etc? If so I'll have to re-evaluate this as a potential option to undertake when I'm not saving money for a holiday...


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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Belmont:
Also, here's a review of the Mini by one of the top PC hardware sites.
That's a good review, indeed. I think they did a good job of decyphering Apple's intent with the mini. I also agree that Apple really shouldn't be shipping anything with less than 512 MB RAM. Maybe someday...


AtariAge Blog
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Quote:
Originally posted by seanraaron:
Is this a bog-standard direct display tube or an LCD tv? 800x600 seems pretty good for a standard tube tv. Is it good enough to read email, etc? If so I'll have to re-evaluate this as a potential option to undertake when I'm not saving money for a holiday...
It's just a cheap tube TV I picked up at Best Buy a couple months ago. I know standard TVs don't have that many lines of resolution, but 800 x 600 is what the s-video out defaults to. I haven't tried Mail, since I'm still using my old computer for that. Safari and iTunes work pretty good on the TV, but small type is too hard to read. Near the top of this web page I could not read UBBFriend, but I could make out the rest of the line. To read that much I had to check the "Best For Video" option that appears in the display preferences when connected to a TV. That option brightens and sharpens the screen.

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Cool, I feel a lot better about picking up one of these babies.

Someday I hope to have a projector/plasma which will take DVI input, but it looks like S-Video will be okay for playing MAME and the odd bit of NFS config otherwise. Now I just need a little cash windfall!


Sean Aaron
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