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a couple of questions #12 08/15/06 04:29 PM
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etabeta78 Offline OP
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as i said in another thread, i'd like to start MESSing ( wink ) up with console emulation in MESS, to possibly find bug to report.

at the end i decided to use command line mess (as i do with mame) since i have some problem with the UI

anyway, i have a couple of questions, sort of preliminary questions to avoid reporting useless/known bugs.

1. is it expected that the UI does not work with a debug compile of MESS? i mean: if i click on messgui after a clean compile with the debugger, the ui doesn't start at all (i can imagine that the debug interface can have 'collisions' with the usual UI, hence i wouldn't be surprised if this is the correct behaviour, but i'm not sure if it actually is)

2. which is the correct/expected behaviour if you launch without carts a system which require carts? if i lauch a bios in MAME, it exits with a memory_set_bankptr NULL error, while MESS gives an initialization error (so different behaviours, and i have no clue wheter mess is ok or not)

i also remember a post about this on this forum but i cannot find it anymore

3. are reports for systems not 100% working allowed? i think to snes, lynx et similia

ps. (about 3) i don't plan to file thousands of reports for any non working demo i find, but if recurrent issues appear i think a report can be of use, even if the driver isn't complete... provided, of course, those problems aren't already reported in the driver

Re: a couple of questions #13 08/16/06 02:24 AM
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Heretical_One Offline
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1. I think you get a messguid.exe smile

2. depends on the system. systems with BIOS will still boot. Something like the SNES... undefined, I suspect.

3. I'd say just be smart about it. For example, if there's an obvious feature missing (say, Mode 7 direct color mode on the SNES (note: this is just an example of a semi-obscure feature and does NOT imply anything about the emulation state)), I'd check to see whether the driver knows it's missing. If not, then report it. Chances are that missing featues not listed as such in the driver are either seldom used or poorly documented, so it's probably helpful.

The more specific bugs (game blows a transition/fails a test), I'd screen against the bug list and the driver, but otherwise, prioritize inversely to the popularity of the game *in the US* and the obviousness of the bug. (ie, if we can't miss the bug, it's probably more likely known than not)

Re: a couple of questions #14 08/16/06 03:45 AM
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In the case of the SNES, I'm well aware of what it's missing and will only get mad if obvious bugs are submitted. Links to small homebrew test programs with source available are welcome, however.

MESS's error message for not giving a cartridge is probably more correct - the MAME behavior is actually the app crashing because you are not intended to be able to do that.

Re: a couple of questions #15 08/16/06 05:51 AM
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Yeah for stuff like NES, SNES, SMS, and Genesis where there are devs still working on finishing or rewriting the drivers it's not worth doing a lot of testing. Same goes for stuff like Odyssey¬? and C64 where the drivers are known to be missing lots of things.

I think testing individual games is more worthwhile for the more obscure systems (where bugs could go unnoticed) or drivers that are mostly complete (so that even if they haven't been worked on in a long time, if someone does pick them up in the future they can just do a Bugzilla query to find out what needs doing).

Re: a couple of questions #16 08/16/06 06:02 AM
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Justin Offline
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Also, one of the biggest sources of MESS bugs is that things break all the time due to MAME core changes and often nobody will notice for several versions, so if you find something obviously broken it's a good idea to check previous versions of MESS and find out if there's an old version where it worked and then a version after that where it broke, that information is very helpful for getting the bug fixed.

Re: a couple of questions #17 08/19/06 01:07 PM
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Brad Oliver Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin:
Yeah for stuff like NES, SNES, SMS, and Genesis where there are devs still working on finishing or rewriting the drivers it's not worth doing a lot of testing.
I'm done with the NES driver for now, so bug reports on the latest CVS builds are very welcome.

Re: a couple of questions #18 08/20/06 04:54 AM
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etabeta78 Offline OP
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you know: mind what you desire, because you could obtain it! smile

i filed 5 bugzilla reports about failure of some (really pedantic) blargg's timing/ppu/apu tests. these tests pass on the real hardware and not in mess.

probably they use exotic features of the system and no game is affected, anyway i thought it was good to report them.

mmc3 irq tests fail as well, but i still haven't filed a report.

on the other hand, your new driver passes all the branch timing tests, almost all the sprite 0 hit tests and 3 out of 4 PPU basic tests.

good job! really!

moreover i didn't see any evident problem with my favourite games. i'll continue to test, but THANKS for your work!

put together this brand new nes driver, haze's megadrive rewrite, arbee's snes work and judge big results on gb & wswan and you'll obtain that MESS is finally moving on the console side as big steps as on the computer side!

Re: a couple of questions #19 08/20/06 05:39 AM
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BTW, in latest CVS is the SNES driver really slow for everyone else (ie it's 60/60 but the games run verrrry slow) or did I bork something in SDLMESS?

ETA: it's not just me, it's a side effect of the timing changes to the core (Aaron says the code should never have worked, and I don't disagree, but it *did* :pac: )

Re: a couple of questions #20 08/20/06 09:09 AM
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Heretical_One Offline
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The pre-rewrite NES driver also suffered blargg's wrath.

The PCE driver could use someone doing a deep blargging. I really need to get out the internal memory map patch, but I keep finding other stuff to do, and then not doing that either smirk

Re: a couple of questions #21 08/20/06 10:00 AM
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I'm reworking the SNES now to use the core's new much improved raster timing support. I just need Aaron to confirm it won't blow up under the weirdness of the SNES ;-)

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