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apple2 palette fix #28551 04/09/07 03:28 AM
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Skito Offline OP
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I would like to discuss the acuracy of the apple2 palette. The current mess apple2 color pallete from the dapple emulator doesn't really look acurrate. I also think the applewin emulator colors are close except for the orange. Does anyone have any experience in what the true palette should be? From memory this patch seems to be the closes colors that aut to be, but before submiting it i'd like to have a discussion on the subject.

Code:
diff -Nru mames.113/src/mess/drivers/apple2.c mames/src/mess/drivers/apple2.c
--- mames.113/src/mess/drivers/apple2.c	2007-03-07 19:55:14.000000000 -0800
+++ mames/src/mess/drivers/apple2.c	2007-04-08 17:05:12.000000000 -0700
@@ -503,28 +503,29 @@
 	PORT_INCLUDE( apple2_gameport )
 INPUT_PORTS_END
 
-/* according to Steve Nickolas (author of Dapple), our original palette would
- * have been more appropriate for an Apple IIgs.  So we've substituted in the
- * Robert Munafo palette instead, which is more accurate on 8-bit Apples
+/* Accorinding to a long term apple2 user, the Applewin Pallete has the
+ * closest blue + purple (Dapple has good orange) that resembles what 
+ * apple2's output when connected to a color screen.  Still need to impliment
+ * a mono palette though at somepoint, what most 8-bit machines used.
  */
 static const unsigned char apple2_palette[] =
 {
-	0x00, 0x00, 0x00,	/* Black */
-	0xE3, 0x1E, 0x60,	/* Dark Red */
-	0x60, 0x4E, 0xBD,	/* Dark Blue */
-	0xFF, 0x44, 0xFD,	/* Purple */
-	0x00, 0xA3, 0x60,	/* Dark Green */
-	0x9C, 0x9C, 0x9C,	/* Dark Gray */
-	0x14, 0xCF, 0xFD,	/* Medium Blue */
-	0xD0, 0xC3, 0xFF,	/* Light Blue */
-	0x60, 0x72, 0x03,	/* Brown */
-	0xFF, 0x6A, 0x3C,	/* Orange */
-	0x9C, 0x9C, 0x9C,	/* Light Grey */
-	0xFF, 0xA0, 0xD0,	/* Pink */
-	0x14, 0xF5, 0x3C,	/* Light Green */
-	0xD0, 0xDD, 0x8D,	/* Yellow */
-	0x72, 0xFF, 0xD0,	/* Aquamarine */
-	0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF	/* White */
+	  0,  0,  0,           /* Black */      
+	221,  0, 51,           /* Dark Red */   
+	  0,  0,153,           /* Dark Blue */  
+	160,  0,255,           /* Purple */     
+	  0,119, 34,           /* Dark Green */ 
+	 85, 85, 85,           /* Dark Gray */  
+	  0,128,255,           /* Medium Blue */
+	102,170,255,           /* Light Blue */ 
+	136, 85,  0,           /* Brown */      
+	240,128,  0,           /* dapple Orange : not the red orange from applewin */     
+	170,170,170,           /* Light Grey */ 
+	255,153,136,           /* Pink */       
+	 32,192,  0,           /* Light Green */
+	255,255,  0,           /* Yellow */     
+	 68,255,153,           /* Aquamarine */ 
+	255,255,255,           /* White */      
 };
 
 static gfx_layout apple2_text_layout =
 


HARP
-skito
Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: Skito] #28552 04/09/07 03:51 AM
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R. Belmont Offline
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Generating the video from a palette at all is incorrect for 8-bit Apple IIs - that's the real problem here (just as it was with the NES). The correct way to get color Apple II output is to feed the 560-pixel monochrome image through an NTSC filter (blargg's is best-known but I'm sure others would work too).

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: R. Belmont] #28582 04/10/07 06:31 AM
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Vas Crabb Offline
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That's only true if you were using the NTSC TV adaptor, which produced rubbish output, anyway. Everyone who was serious about their Apple II would use an Apple RGB or monochrome monitor. You could actually read 80-column text that way.

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: Vas Crabb] #28584 04/10/07 07:05 AM
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R. Belmont Offline
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Yes, but people who were that serious were not running anything with hi-res graphics. Most classic Apple II games had graphics designed especially for the NTSC fringing resulting from Woz's unique approach to color video. This is why not only do all the emulators attempt to simulate them but the IIgs's VGC custom simulates them on the RGB output :-)

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: R. Belmont] #28724 04/14/07 09:27 AM
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blargg Offline
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Are my NTSC filters usable in MESS? I put some time into an Apple II NTSC filter a while back and it'd be nice to have it see the light of day.

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: blargg] #28729 04/14/07 09:58 AM
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Firewave Offline
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As long as your code is still C++, it's not really usable out of the box as MAME/MESS is C.

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: Firewave] #28735 04/14/07 11:27 AM
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R. Belmont Offline
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His code is not C++, or at least the version used in NEStopia isn't.

blargg: let me know where to find your Apple II filter and I'll check it out.

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: R. Belmont] #28773 04/16/07 03:01 AM
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blargg Offline
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Very rough, but at least gets the bricks appearing in King's Quest 3 on the castle. Input pixels are 4 bits each, corresponding to what would appear in monochrome double high resolution mode. Demo accepts BMPs in high resolution monochrome or color formats.

apple_ntsc-0.1.0.zip




Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: blargg] #28782 04/16/07 09:14 AM
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Bletch Offline
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If NTSC filtering is to be done in MAME/MESS, it should be in the core. Perhaps instead of specifying an RGB bitmap, maybe you could have a lume/chroma bitmap?

By doing this, the actual dirty work of processing the filters could be done in the rendering thread, and not run at all when frameskipping. And the code would not be tied to any particular driver.

Re: apple2 palette fix [Re: Bletch] #28785 04/16/07 10:26 AM
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Agreed. I'm also a bit confused as to why there are separate NTSC filters for NES, SNES, Apple II, PC-CGA, etc. You can hook all of those to the same TV smile

Last edited by R. Belmont; 04/16/07 10:27 AM.
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