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...and now I'm off to Korea for a weeks holiday. See you next week! http://www.bannister.org/software/ao.htm
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For reference, my builds of this have some minor GUI improvements over the last preview build I posted.
Linux: scrollbars only appear when necessary on the song list
Windows: horizontal scrollbar now appears when needed (thanks to an MFC extender I found - MS's listview weirdly doesn't support horizontal scrollbars by default).
There are no playback changes from the last preview, but I'm working on the reported S98 trouble :-)
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Awesome, NSF channel separation works again (Mac)! Very very happy.
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Excellent! Some of those problem PSFs now play. Fantastic work, guys.
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Hmm, Crash Team Racing doesn't appear to play. It just plays silence.
There are also a scant few MiniPSFs that, when imported into Audio Overload, give the usual "nested archive" error. Un-raring and then re-zipping them works, though, as does just playing them un-zipped. An example of one game is Final Fantasy VIII.
Last edited by Slick Mandela; 09/15/07 11:05 PM.
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I had this assumption that since AO's been out a while now people would start testing new PSF rips on it instead of assuming all players have the same bugs as Corlett's. Apparently I was wrong - I'm downloading everything that's been ripped in the last 8 months or so (which turns out to be a lot) and I'll go through it. ETA: First up, the 64-bit Linux version had a bug that caused some sets in formats that need more than one file (e.g. minipsf/PSF2/GSF/QSF/MID/ROL/MDX/etc) to crash. I've taken care of it. Currently there are 8 out of the 230-odd known-to-me PSF sets (based on LLin's download site) that don't work in AO. Those are Bomberman, Crash Team Racing, Einhander, Nekketsu Oyaku, Noel 3, Star Ixiom, Strider, and To Heart. The other 200+ sets should play fine :-)
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/16/07 01:03 AM.
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Actually, your best bet to ensure the AO PSF compatibility streak would be to post on the 2CHN ripping thread, as 95% of recent rips come from there.
And it's more like 450+ unless you're missing something. :P
Lawrence Lin's site doesn't have some of the larger sets (for obvious reasons) like that 700+ MB Katamari packs.
Last edited by Knurek; 09/16/07 06:48 PM.
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I'm not counting PSF2s - those are an entirely separate level of hell.
They should watch it or I'll post my crappy PSF rip of Madden '97 with no reverb and missing instruments ;-)
Also, what's 2CHN? The obvious URLs are all domain parks and Google's got nothing.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/16/07 07:05 PM.
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Hmm, that site chokes both Amikai and BizLingo, so it's not real useful for me. I did notice someone made a new SSF rip - are there more of those?
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Well, links to new rips are in romanji, so it's not really that important.  As for SSF: http://www.vorc.org/en/20070917110827
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Hmm, I guess I'll include my SSF code in the Unofficial PSF SDK (actual name pending) ;-) ![[Linked Image from rbelmont.mameworld.info]](http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/ssf.png) (No, that's not in the shipping version - there are a few technical difficulties with the format right now =)
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I've added 7zip archive support and the SSF support's much improved. This track from BLACK/MATRIX sounds distinctly like Cypress Hill. Don't play it unless you've got bass :-)
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Mega Man: Battle and Chase (found in the WIP section) doesn't seem to work, either- it plays silence.
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There's nothing necessary to change, it's just an image of SCSP RAM with the boot code modified :-) I'm guessing the reported problems with the existing plugin are related to Corlett using StarScream, which is notoriously buggy. (At least I'm not hearing anything wrong with the tracks marked as "bad" in BLACK/MATRIX, and I of course use the MAME 68k core).
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Incidentally, is that script publically available? I'd love to see how it works and maybe rip some ST-V games :-)
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Well, I did link to it in my previous post. :P ST-V game would be nice, though I kinda doubt they'd use the standard Saturn music driver... //Edit Also, the worst offender I could find was a proof of concept Yu-No rip. Sounded nothing like music... Available here: http://www.uploda.net/cgi/uploader4/index.php?dlpas_id=0000019601.rarUse ssf as download password.
Last edited by Knurek; 09/20/07 04:35 AM.
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Actually the ST-V driver is the Saturn one with an #ifdef enabled to read the coin inputs and pass them up to the SH-2. So I figure adding a hotkey to MAME to dump the 68000 RAM plus the dump script should yield something not unlike success, but we'll see  (And of course ST-V's a good target because except for VF Remix all the games use sequenced music).
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Yeah, but all those PSX based arcade games don't really use standard PSX SEQ format, right? And the script's only looking for standard Sega music format right now.
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Actually the PSX arcade games that do use sequenced music (Konami 80s, Wedding Rhapsody, etc) do use standard SEQ/VAB format. There's no cost savings using a console platform if you don't also use the console's tools :-)
And as far as I can tell the dumping script doesn't search for anything unless you're using SSF format. Yabause-style direct dumps just have a "start sequence" command poked into them. I'll try it in a sec though. If it works, the sound test menu in most ST-V games is gonna become a goldmine.
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I don't know what Corlett's plugin sounds like on that Yu-No rip, but http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/yuno.mp3 sounds like music to me ;-) And I successfully ripped the level 1 song from ST-V Shienryu. Here's an untagged version: http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/shienryu_test.zipOne more thing: http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/stvssf.zip is a patch against MAME 0.119 so that pressing U during an ST-V game will dump ssf.bin, ready to use with kingshriek's script. For Shienryu I had to change the tonebank and track to 0x01 in the ssfdata.py file like the history_buffer.txt suggested (and don't forget to set pmdump to 0). (Edit: I revised the patch to output ssf.bin directly so you don't have to rename it).
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/20/07 05:11 PM.
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By god, you're right... Let's see if I can rip something out of DoA++.
Last edited by Knurek; 09/20/07 02:10 PM.
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Some of what you guys are talking about is going over my head, but Dead or Alive++? Isn't that an arcade only game? Does this mean doapp might be playable in a new M1? 
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Well, it should be possible to make a PSF set from the game but it'd require someone more skilled at it than me, as quick import of the ripped datas into davironica EZPSF driver doesn't output sound. But yeah, the game uses standard SEQ/VAB driver, I've succesfully converted the ripped SEQ files to MIDI and they play fine (albeit with wrong instruments for obvious reasons). //Edit RB, the part in the yuno that starts playing at roughly 17 seconds in does sound a bit out of tune (both in in_ssf and in the MP3 sample you provided). At least compared to the PC-98 original, maybe the Saturn conversion is borked. Compare yourself. www.snesmusic.org/hoot/yuno.ogg
Last edited by Knurek; 09/20/07 02:42 PM.
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Slick: not in M1, but it should be possible to rip some PSX-hardware arcade games to .PSF and most ST-V (Saturn hardware) games to .SSF so AO can play them.
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Knurek: you post on 2CH, could you inform them of the ST-V patch and the Shienryu test rip?
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I'd preffer Fujix or someone other fluent in Japanese did it. Everytime I post there in english I feel like I'm intruding. :|
You can always submit it as news on VORC, most of the Japanese rippers read that as well.
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I see a regular there noticed and posted it in Japanese, so it's all good 
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Sorry to get in the middle of this conversation, but I discovered a game that doesn't seem to work with the latest Audio Overload: Power Blade 1, an NSF. It gives me the corrupted/nested error when I try to play it (and before you ask, yes, it's unzipped or unrared or whatever- I'm just trying to play the nsf itself). For some reason it doesn't work in Game Music Box either- not sure why this is. Does it have a weird sound system or something?
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FWIW, I've been able to get SSFs successfully out of Cotton 2, Final Arch, and Guardian Force as well (just a few games at random). No luck with Sokyugurentai (it uses a compatible driver but I couldn't get the parameters right). For most games just hit F2 once they start, pick the game from the "SINGLE GAME TEST", then sound test and you're good to go :-) http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/more_test_ssfs.zip for the curious. Incidentally, the tricky part about ripping PSX arcade games is going to be if the original setup code uses the data directly from ROM instead of copying it into RAM first but that shouldn't affect using it with a universal player like davronica's. (There's also the issue that most of the arcade systems have more RAM than a home PSX so PSF players may need to be extended). Slick: no idea on that, but if it also fails in GMB then it's blargg's problem :-)
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/20/07 05:17 PM.
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Could SPU play samples from main RAM? I thought it had separate 512 kB for that?
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SPU can only play samples from SPURAM, but the normal disc -> RAM -> SPU transfer path that PSF rips like (they grab it at the "RAM" part and then execute from there) can potentially be ROM -> SPU on the arcade boards.
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Okie, that was fast. Full PSF set from DoA++ is available at 2CH. Should be mirrored on Lawrence Lin's Mirror in a while.
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Nice!  I'd like to see rips from the other Tecmo ZN-1 games too now.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/21/07 01:53 PM.
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No luck with Sokyugurentai (it uses a compatible driver but I couldn't get the parameters right). The Saturn version uses bank=0x02, track=0x00 for at least most of the tracks. The Soukyugurentai tracks play at an extremely low volume in Highly Theoretical for some reason - I had to set the volume tag to a very high value to compensate. I've encountered quite a few ssf's that I can't get Highly Theoretical to play at all, but I believe should work (using Yabause's memory transfer upload capability). Tokimeki Memorial is one of the problematic games (Madou Monogatari is another). Here's a test track from Tokimeki Memorial - http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/tokimemo_test.zip - I'd be very interested on whether Audio Overload is capable of playing it.
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That Tokimeki Memorial track doesn't play anything for me either - I see key-ons happening but the voice volume is always set to 254, where 0 is full volume and 255 is full silence.
ETA: You're right about Sokyugurentai - it was playing, just very softly (and it's bank 0x02 track 0x00 like you said as well). I enabled AO's normalize feature and it sounds much better :-)
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/22/07 05:33 PM.
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That Tokimeki Memorial track doesn't play anything for me either - I see key-ons happening but the voice volume is always set to 254, where 0 is full volume and 255 is full silence. Interesting. I took a quick look at the driver and found where it was setting the voice volumes (there's a ton of code before this that does a bunch of stuff with D6). Here, A5 is 0x100000 (SCSP registers) and D4 is used to select the slot.
<snip>lots of D6 modifying code</snip>
0x00003276: 0x4606 NOT.B D6
0x00003278: 0x1B86 0x400D MOVE.B D6,(0xD,A5,D4.W) Replaced the NOT.B D6 with a NOP (0x4E71) and woohoo, sound, albeit with heavy clipping distortion. Guess I'll look into tracing back from here to see what exactly is going on. Thanks for the info.
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I tried modifying the script to include a SET MASTER VOLUME to full (0x82 0x00 0x0F) command but Sokyu wouldn't get any louder. Weird. Maybe that would help your other game though? ETA: I patched that command into the Tokimeki example you provided and no luck 
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/22/07 09:28 PM.
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BTW, speaking of PSFs and such, I can say for certain that the Croc PSF isn't the actual music used in the game. Not only is the amount of tracks wrong (8 as opposed to 40-something) but two of the tracks weren't even used in the game and the rest sound slightly different than what was actually used.
Not sure why I brought this up here, because this ain't a PSF-ripping board, but I guess I'm confused where they got that music. I'd love to see a rip of the tracks actually used in the game.
EDIT: Same for Klonoa, for that matter.
Last edited by Slick Mandela; 09/22/07 11:09 PM.
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It's likely the final game used streaming music and the ripped synthesized tracks were some sort of early test. It's also not uncommon for PSFs/SPCs/etc to have tracks that weren't used in the actual game.
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PSF rips of Gallop Racer (arcade) and Heaven's Gate (arcade) have been done by the 2CH guys, and they play fine in AO  Until VORC catches up, you can get them here: http://www.uploda.net/cgi/uploader1/index.php?dlpas_id=0000254162.zipEnter psf in the first text entry box and press Enter to download. Now I'm hoping for Tondemo Crisis  And Shanghai.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/23/07 12:02 AM.
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Yeah, Croc and Klonoa use XA for audio. Klonoa has a few sequenced tracks, the ones from Croc are early versions of the ones used in the game (as stated in the readme that should be included with the set).
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I have "Shanghai: The Way to the Great Wall (special edition)" for PlaySatation. I know it uses sequenced music. In the "MUSIC" directory on the CD, there are a whole lot of very small .SEQ files (2kB-4kB), a 34kB .VH file and a 476kB .VB file. Sorry for being a n00b, but is there any way I can play this music with AO? Here is a zip of the folder, in case it may help. edit: added link to files
Last edited by Vas Crabb; 09/23/07 10:03 AM.
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Are you sure the game doesn't use XA or CDDA for music? The sequences you've posted are pretty short, so I'm guessing they are used for SFX/Jingles. You can try importing them into Mark Grass Generic PSF driver ( http://markgrass.the-horror.com/PSF1/) or Davironica's one ( http://oddigytitanium.com/psf/psfpsf2/psfpsf2.php) and see if it'll work, but yeah, only jingles here.
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No, it doesn't use CDDA. The disc only has a single data track. It has quite catchy looping sequenced music for each level. It's possible it's some custom format that I won't be able to find a player for, though.
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Nah, .SEQ+.VH+.VB is bog-standard. And I'll bet it's the same music as the arcade ZN-1. ETA: I do tend to agree that those sequence files are too short for any kind of music though - .SEQ is essentially slightly more compact MIDI data and you aren't going to fit anything interesting in less than 100 bytes  (They don't appear to be otherwise compressed either, the pQES signature is right where it should be). I'm guessing the actual music sequences are elsewhere.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/23/07 11:55 AM.
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Thanks Knurek, but all of those tools you pointed me at were Windows binaries only. Is there any way I can make a PSF for AO with .SEQ+.VH+.VB on a Mac or Sun? I don't have any other platforms at home.
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Nope, the PSF tools I'm aware of are all for Windows. Corlett posts source for a lot of the small ones, but PSFLab is the biggie and it's a ginormous MFC beast.
Check if any of the other data files in the game contain the magic "pQES" signature though - if you can find the music Knurek or I could probably slap something together.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/23/07 12:01 PM.
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Hmm, that site chokes both Amikai and BizLingo, so it's not real useful for me. Do a post at a time, and BizLingo will be happy. I've run into this sort of messageboard before. Ex. http://pc11.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/dtm/1174838154/1http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/body/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpc11.2ch.net%2Ftest%2Fread.cgi%2Fdtm%2F1174838154%2F1&wb_submit=%83E%83F%83u%83y%81%5B%83W%96%7C%96%F3&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2 Still, not pretty. [EDIT] Also, Google was able to process the first I-don't-know-how-many lines. - Stiletto
Last edited by Stiletto; 09/23/07 12:49 PM.
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No, it doesn't use CDDA. The disc only has a single data track. It has quite catchy looping sequenced music for each level. It's possible it's some custom format that I won't be able to find a player for, though. Actually those files you provided work with Mark Grass driver, and like I've said, there are two jingles (s_clear and the other one that has 2kB seq) and some sfx) about 10 seconds each long and a bunch of SFX. The game can use streamed XA music (does the game has any *.xa files? Or a large (100MB+) pack file that doesn't compress at all? Does PsxMC detect any XA music?). It's unlikely it'd use standard music format for some tracks and a custom one for some.
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Since there's a ZN-1 version that definitely uses all sequenced music I'd guess the main .SEQs are just elsewhere on the disc.
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I'll have a look at the disc again tonight. I didn't bring it to work with me. But I honestly don't think it's using XA music - the data track isn't very long. And I know you're trying to help, Knurek, but I don't have a Windows machine at home for running any of the utilities you mention.
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Incidentally, to pick up an earlier thread, Sokyu plays much louder in MAME, which is funky since I ripped it from MAME. Must be something volume-related getting initialized in some versions of the driver that doesn't in others.
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Amazing what a release can do for momentum, eh? I've just added HivelyTracker (HVL) and AHX support. Bleep bleep.
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I came across this topic while browsing Vorc and i'm really glad of what i found here. HUGE thanks to everybody working on the SSF ripping process !  I gave it a very quick try and i could get a working ssf dump of Magic Knight Rayearth. You can get the test track here: http://www.necstasy.net/tmp/mk_test.rarUsing the winamp plugin i'm getting some kind of statics at the very beginning of the song, not sure if this is a player or rip issue, will check more tomorow. Thanks again for making it possible. Square
Last edited by Squaresoft74; 09/26/07 01:30 AM.
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Thanks Squaresoft, I'm a fan of your PSF rips :-)
ETA: I noticed the popping you were talking about in the plugin, I don't get that in AO but the actual music sounds about the same.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/26/07 03:39 AM.
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Ok i gave it another go with Dsp on and off. When setting the DSP to off i don't get anymore poping sound. Please redownload the file and let me know if that make any difference when played with AO.  Talking about the AO version you're using for SSF playback, is it a private build or is there any beta version available ? Square
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It's a private build at the moment.
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Both songs are definitely intended to have the DSP on - in Tokyo Tower it's used to add a little subtle reverb to the clap sound that IMO makes it sound better, for instance.
ETA: (And no, that's not just my magic ears, I have debug output that shows when a voice is keyed on with a non-zero effects send).
Last edited by R. Belmont; 09/26/07 07:33 PM.
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Ok thanks for the info. Are there any specific string i can look for in order to know what are the sequence/sample (just like the pQES/pBAV sig for the standard PSX format) ? I know where i can get the original sound file on the MKR disc and from what i saw i could retrieve them untouched in the SPU dump file (unlike psf file where i saw vab headers getting modified).
Since the patch already extract everything needed to make the ssf file, that would be awsome to use it to easly extract the driver and then use a psflab tool like to tweak it and import the sequences/sample directly from the game disc. This would avoid going through the whole games or the need of a debug mode/sound test and make sure we don't miss any music.
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I don't know if there's a signature for the sequences or tone banks off the top of my head. The driver is usually in a file called "sddrvs.tsk" though.
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Right i found it, it was "SDDRVS.BIN. in my case. 
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Are there any specific string i can look for in order to know what are the sequence/sample (just like the pQES/pBAV sig for the standard PSX format) ? For sequence data and tone data, there are no magic strings to look for unfortunately. For ripping ssf's from game data, I usually use pointer tables [if provided], to extract them if they are packed together in a giant (uncompressed) archive. Sometimes, the tone and sequence data are packed together in such a way that the file can be directly mapped into sound memory (in this case, I use the sound area map data to determine the offset into the 68k's address space). DSP programs do embed a filename (<something>.EXB) in the data, so those are always easy to find. I know where i can get the original sound file on the MKR disc and from what i saw i could retrieve them untouched in the SPU dump file (unlike psf file where i saw vab headers getting modified).
Since the patch already extract everything needed to make the ssf file, that would be awsome to use it to easly extract the driver and then use a psflab tool like to tweak it and import the sequences/sample directly from the game disc. This would avoid going through the whole games or the need of a debug mode/sound test and make sure we don't miss any music. There are 6 things that a ripper needs to concern him(/her)self with when ripping SSFs from the game data itself. (1) Sound driver - 68000 code, usually called SDDRVS.TSK as stated before (2) Sound area map - this tells the driver how to interpret different regions of sound memory; mapped to 0x500-0x5FF in the 68000's address space. Consists of eight byte blocks, containing the type of data (sequence, tone, DSP program, or DSP RAM), bank number, offset, transfer complete status, and size. The transfer complete bits need to be set by the ripper for sound driver to function correctly. (3) Sequence data - sound area map determines where this is mapped (4) Tone data - sound area map determines where this is mapped (5) DSP programs (if any) - sound area map determines where this is mapped (6) commands sent to the driver from the host - 0x700-0x77F in the 68000 address space acts as a buffer for 8 sound commands (each being 16 bytes in length - first byte determines the command, second byte is zero, the rest are parameters). The ripper will most likely need to manually produce these. Assuming you can isolate the sound driver, sound area map(s), sequence data, tone data, and DSP effect programs (if any), I have a Python script that I've been using to put everything together to make the final ssf file. To use, just specify the filenames and parameters (used to determine what sound commands are place in the 0x700-0x77F area). http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/ssfmake.zipAs it stands, the script has some limitations. Mainly, the script assumes a single tone bank for the track (in most cases, this is true, but not always (ex. Soukyugurentai)). If multiple tone banks are indeed used, the script can still be used (no modifcations necessary) as long as the multiple tone banks are consecutive in memory. Just specify the first tone bank given by the area map and ignore the warning about area map overflow.
Last edited by kingshriek; 09/27/07 01:54 AM.
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Thanks to Kingshriek's precious help, i got a full Magic Knight Rayearth SSF rip now. Just the time to title and time the set and i'll release it. 
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Fantastic, can't wait to hear it 
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I have two more SSF ripping related Python scripts - a tone data extractor and a sequence data extractor. They will (attempt to) extract all the tone and sequence data out of a specified file (they'll only work if the tone and sequence data is stored uncompressed of course). The tone and sequence output files can then be used with the ssfmake.py script I posted earlier. Both scripts require command line arguments (a filename and output directory (optional)). They haven't been fully tested so there may be some bugs. I've used them to extract all the tone and sequence data out of Tokimeki Memorial's BGM.BIN for example (I still have no idea how to get Tokimemo's driver (SDDRVS6.TSK) working correctly, though). seqext.py and tonext.py scripts: http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/tonseqext.zipRegarding SSF sets, I have made (most likely) complete sets of Doukoku Soshite..., Ginga Ojousama Densetsu Yuna 3, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Sakura Taisen, Sakura Taisen 2, and Tengai Makyou - The Apocalypse IV (well for this one in particular, I filtered out the uninteresting ambiance tracks). Dokouku, Yuna 3, and Tengai Makyou still need to be titled and timed as I don't have the soundtrack handy to compare the music against. All sets are packaged with English and Japanese PSFPoint tagging batch files. I've uploaded the sets here (sorry about the filesize, but these sets aren't very conducive to minissf/ssflib): http://rapidshare.com/files/59925930/ssf_set01_kingshriek.zip.html (50.5 MB) Other than Panzer Dragoon Zwei, the above titles don't have readily available sound tests, so they were ripped directly from the game CDs. EDIT: Gah, already found and fixed a couple bugs in both scripts. Above link is updated. Scripts upgraded to v0.01.
Last edited by kingshriek; 10/03/07 10:39 AM.
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Yeah, I would think in most cases you're going to have a different tone bank per song so the only thing shared reliably would be the driver program itself.
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Side question again: Anyone know where to get the psf for Tomba Demo? IIRC it used to be on http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/ , but it doesn't seem to be there anymore.
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Ah, that's why I didn't see DOA++ on the site I linked to. Thanks!
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DOA++ is available on my homepage. 
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There was another set available on 2CH about two days before you had done yours though. 
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Yup i read about it but since i was almost done with mine at that moment i released it anyway. 
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I'm using Linux.
This new version of audio overload seems to use 100% of the CPU, all the time.
Last edited by PatrickMay; 10/05/07 02:39 PM.
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Actually it only uses a lot of CPU when it's not playing music.
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Thats great work guys.. Lots of the ssf music so far created/ripped is damn cool... Panzer DragoonZwei music brings back memories  Cootton 2 also... Level 1 song was great R. Belmont .. Thanks.. Would love any other levels from that game.. Soundtrack is not bad, but short and it sounds better in the ssf actually than the soundtrack..aww ANyway thanks for your time and all the other guys in making the rips :-) Marcus
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Full rips are coming 
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BTW, some more things (besides SSF) that'll be in the next AO: - Shift-JIS encoded Japanese metadata in files is properly displayed as Japanese characters instead of garbage - .SPU rips are supported (it's a PS1 log format somewhat popular in Japan that the Eternal SPU plugin for ePSXe can output). - Support for pretty much every ST and Amiga subformat the SC68 engine supports, including Future Composer, SIDMON, various custom formats used by David Whittaker and Jeroen Tel, and many more. Kickstart your collection here - there's a 25 meg .tar.gz with compatible music in 50+ subformats, and in the meantime the current AO will play the SNDH and SNDH-ICE compatible songs that are in there 
Last edited by R. Belmont; 10/08/07 03:18 PM.
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I didn't know there was anything wrong with the HES support 
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I'd say it's missing ADPCM support at the very least. 
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See, this is why I hate this project. People seemingly only report bugs as a means of gotcha-ing Richard and myself. The HES support has been the same for like 4 years now, and there's nary a peep until it becomes an opportunity to score points on a messageboard (and even then there are no usable details). Is everyone also this rude to Corlett and Kobrin and whoever? (I know they are to HCS, so don't answer there).
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Ah, so it's not just me that feels that way. HES hasn't changed since it was first implemented in Audio Overload, and nobody has ever commented about it before. RB - Non illegitimi carborundum... 
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It looks like support for this hasn't been in Nezplug++ for very long at all, rips have been out only for a couple months that include the ADPCM samples... I'd find it no wonder you might be in the dark about it. I didn't even pay notice to it until it was just mentioned above  As it is, I only see 5 sets that have this in them (on kingshriek's page). = LINK HERE= I'd be hard pressed in knowing what is missing without a source recording of the games.. Tafoid
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You'd have to ask kingshriek or Offgao about the details, cause I don't really know what's the deal is with ADPCM support, I can just tell that AO doesn't play them. Kingshriek has a few ADPCM rips on his site, maybe looking and them would help as well.
If I had some testcases handy I'd post comparison waves like with the S98, but I don't. I do have some ready for Protracker, but this is kinda time consuming, so it'll have to wait for a better time (though from the top of my head, E0x and EFx isn't supported. E0x is used in Mystical's Salsa Con Carne (roughly 1:00 into), EFx in Reed's Urea Geller).
//Edit
And yeah, this is all fairly recent. Offgao's been adding fixed to NEZPlug for the last... Dunno, two months.
Last edited by Knurek; 10/08/07 09:27 PM.
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I enjoy "dogfooding" AO enough that it's not a major deal. And working on it and M1 have gotten me in regular contact with some very cool people, like the current Hoot team.
It's just that the seeming reluctance to post bugs as they're encountered annoys me. I don't expect anything of the complexity of MAMETesters, but some of the immediacy wouldn't hurt. It's not like we don't fix things - the AY, SNDH, KSS, SPC, and S98 engines have all been scrapped and replaced with better code as a direct result of reports, and there's more to come.
ETA: I can see ADPCM being a recent thing, most PCE emulators don't play it either (someone filed a bug against MESS on it and I think Judge puked ;-)
I don't have Protracker effects memorized, but I assume one of those is the filter control? I'm just happy I recently found a site that has all of U4ia's mods still. "Watch Your Bass Bins" is the Protracker torture test nobody knows about, and unlike ode2ptk you can actually listen to it :-)
Last edited by R. Belmont; 10/08/07 09:44 PM.
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Well i never reported such bug for AO simply because i never used or tried AO till i came across this thread.  A good test to see that current Hes support is incomplete is Jacky Chan, check it against Nezplug++ or even Ootake or Mednafen. If you need Hes archive see Kaminari's hes page
Last edited by Squaresoft74; 10/08/07 09:50 PM.
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It's just that the seeming reluctance to post bugs as they're encountered annoys me. See, if I'd use AO, I'd post bugreports till you'd get sick just looking at my nick. But it's not my player of choice (let's not get into that discussion again), so what I can find are, you know, random things here and there. I don't have Protracker effects memorized, but I assume one of those is the filter control? I'm just happy I recently found a site that has all of U4ia's mods still. "Watch Your Bass Bins" is the Protracker torture test nobody knows about, and unlike ode2ptk you can actually listen to it :-) Yea, E0x is filter control. EFx is that funky invert loop thingy which had some sample breaking bugs (and is used by some chiptunes to change the samples). This breaks AO pretty bad (constant nagboxes if the module uses the effect extensively). One other thing I'm pretty sure you don't support (sorry, don't have the time to whip up an example to check) is VBLANK timing as discussed here: http://www.un4seen.com/forum/?topic=1839.0Also, if you want modules, try ftp.modland.com which has the largest collection of them online (updated daily).
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Understood, SS74. It was just bad timing - Richard had just emailed me a thread from a Mac forum where a few people were being ridiculous about PSF files being slightly too fast (something pSX Author is helping me fix right now - see what I mean about meeting cool people?)
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Ahh, yes, funkrepeat. The Protracker documentation actually said not to use it because it doesn't work. I'm not surprised people did anyway though.
Is there anything we could do to make AO your preferred chiptune player, or are you simply married to the "all in one even when standalones are better" concept that keeps MAME #1? ;-)
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Regarding ADPCM in HES, it was never part of the original spec to begin with ( http://www.purose.net/befis/download/nezplug/hesspec.txt) - notice the I/O Map doesn't cover the CD/ADPCM registers at 0x1FF800-0x1FF80F. There are 6 CD games that I'm aware of that use a ADPCM drumset alongside PSG (well, one is a hidden shooter on a preview disc, but still). At the time that I did them, no HES player supported ADPCM, but I could still get the rips working in Mednafen and Ootake anyway, so I released them. Afterwards (quite recently in fact), ADPCM support was added to NEZPlug++. So, I definitely wouldn't call lack of support of ADPCM for HES a bug. It's really just the latest development in the format (probably the final frontier).
Last edited by kingshriek; 10/09/07 02:32 AM.
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Actually it only uses a lot of CPU when it's not playing music. No, Mr Belmont! I am serious here. Take a look at this diagram. http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1207/diagramlf2.pngAs you can see, on a dual processor system, it uses both cores when not doing anything. And it uses 100% of one core when playing a song. On a single processor system, 100% of the CPU is used by audio overload all the time when it is running. Now, I would say that this is a very serious glitch. It would drive up the processor temperature, and on laptops, drain the battery quickly. This is also a waste of processor time. For example, if one young chap wants to encode some mp3s and listen to the soundtrack of "Seiken Densetsu 3" at the same time, surely his mp3 encoding will take a lot longer because Audio Overload is using a lot of the CPU time (which would otherwise have been put to better use). And because he didn't get his mp3s encoded on time, he is late to work, and his boss is angry and cuts his salary. And then the stress of financial trouble could drive him to alcohol. After this, because of his drink problem, his wife leaves him. Lives could be ruined this way.
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It's fixed already, you can stop selling the drama now :-)
ETA: just finished rewriting the root counters. FF7 now plays exactly the same speed as in Highly Experimental and the OST.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 10/09/07 02:51 AM.
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Can always use some drama in life  hehe Thanks.. I'm too cheap to have a dual core bug yet.. :P but glad its fixed.
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Is there anything we could do to make AO your preferred chiptune player, or are you simply married to the "all in one even when standalones are better" concept that keeps MAME #1? ;-) Actually I'm using a few external players when they are better (M1, Hoot, WinJam for Atari ST files, etc). And I'm gonna keep AO for SSF until someone backports your promised libopenssf to a winamp plugin or the like. But yeah, I do prefer all in one approach, and AO is still missing some crucial formats (XM, IT, SID, many Amiga exotic ones, and a good MIDI softsynth (PC games, NDS VGMTrans rips)).
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Just to pull back one thing, AO does force VBlank timing for MODs detected to be NoiseTracker or otherwise pre-ProTracker (the detection method is the same one used by UADE, so it oughta be solid). It definitely picks up Klisje Paa Klisje[1] fine (and there's a specific check also for a broken-but-common version of KPK that's floating around the Internet - it was re-saved in ProTracker or a compatible PC tracker and the "number of patterns" is incorrect even though they're all present in the file). Other pre-Protracker modules are harder to come by.
[1] People reading this post who've never heard Klisje really should - it's probably the most genuinely musical MOD ever made.
Last edited by R. Belmont; 10/09/07 06:28 PM. Reason: It gets easy to mix up these trackers :)
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Good to hear, and I'd recommend Pink's Klisje Paa Klisje AHX rendition even more than the original.
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It's odd because the pattern data is probably directly ripped, but to my ears the AHX version sounds much more quantized and robotic than the original. I'd like to hear a name-brand SID musician attempt it sometime on real hardware. Until then, z00m's VTX of Second Reality is probably my favorite samples to chip conversion, although the SIDs from the C64 remake of Desert Dream were great too.
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Uhh, from the top of my head:
KB's 2nd Reality C64 Soundtrack. Mitch & Dane's Pools of Poison and 911 conversions. Vip's Love Theme conversion.
Though all tunes make extensive use of the SID filter, so if you play them in something ancient like libsidplay1, they're not gonna sound so good.
Last edited by Knurek; 10/09/07 09:46 PM.
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Yeah, 2nd Reality C64 was impressive, although the code outshines the music there IMO :-)
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It's fixed already, you can stop selling the drama now :-) Great, thanks. Sorry to bother you again, but, where can one download the fixed version? (if it's available yet.)
Last edited by PatrickMay; 10/10/07 09:54 PM.
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Most of your posts here have been rather content-free, and this one just takes the cake. What's up with you?
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Most of your posts here have been rather content-free, and this one just takes the cake. What's up with you? L O LAverage of 6 1/4 words per post. Not counting Wippy's longest post, an average of 2 2/3 words per post. Not counting Wippy's two longest posts, an average of ~1.5 words per post.
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