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Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: incog] #35527 11/08/07 03:18 AM
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ranger_lennier Offline
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These are considered Wanted Dumps for MAME, actually. The Super Famicom Box was a pay-for-play system used in Japanese hotels. I've passed it along to Guru.

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: R. Belmont] #35528 11/08/07 06:27 AM
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Stiletto Offline
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Hmm.. Color me interested.

*looks*

Okay, that emulator is a bit of a cheat, per MAME/MESS's way of doing things. They've effectively bypassed attempting to emulate the undocumented Cirrus CL-PS7010/20/30 chipset by writing their own drivers for other memory controllers, etc, and hooking them in to replace the originals. Or something like that.

Now, on the other hand, obtaining docs on said chipset? I smell a challenge!

Datasheets/documentation available:
Apple Newton MessagePad 1x0 series chips (approx.):
VY86C610/P610ARM - VLSI or GEC Plessey/ARM - CPU
Z85C30 - Zilog - RS422 Serial
28F008SA - Intel - Flash memory
AD7880AR - Analog Devices - A/D Converter
LT1271CQ - Linear Tech - Switching Reg.
Likely any other RAM

Apple Newton "N2" Platform (M2x00/emate 300) series chips (approx.):
SA-110S - Digital Equip. (DEC) - CPU (M2x00)
VLSI VY86C710A - VLSI/ARM - CPU (emate)
LH28F016SUT-70 - Sharp - Flash RAM
CS8130 - Cirrus Logic - Infrared Transceiver
TC51V4260DFTS-60 - Toshiba - DRAM - or
HM51W4260CLTT7 - Hitachi - DRAM - or
HM51W16165LTT6 - Hitachi - DRAM
LTC1323CG - Linear Tech - RS422 AppleTalk chip
MAX1771 - Maxim - Voltage converter

Datasheets/documentation unavailable:
Apple Newton MessagePad 1x0 series chips (approx.):
"RUNT" (LIC 7645) - Apple - Chipset (DRAM Control, Memory management, DMA, RTC, video interface, audio, PCMCIA)
LTC902CS - Linear Tech - Driver/Receiver for Z85C30
Whatever ROM chips storing the OS

Apple Newton "N2" Platform (M2x00/emate 300) series chips (approx.):
CL-PS7010 - Cirrus Logic - CPU Subsystem Controller
CL-PS7020 - Cirrus Logic - Analog Controller
CL-PS7030 - Cirrus Logic - PCMCIA Controller
LHME5BT3 - Sharp - ROM
LHME5BT4 - Sharp - ROM

Woohoo, sounds like fun. Damned if I know how we'd do it without leaked documentation. Decapping might help some, but we'd actually need an electron microscope, and they're likely multi-layer chips.

One thing no one in the Newton scene has commented on publicly that I can see: The Cirrus Logic CL-PS70x0 were developed in combination with Apple, yes, but there's a follow-up chipset called the CL-PS7110. It's actually a SoC "System-On-a-Chip" that effectively combines the CL-PS70x0 features with an ARM7100 core onto one chip - a PDA on a chip. It came out after the CL-PS70x0, obviously, but there's actually some documentation on it out there. While Apple-proprietary tech. wouldn't be in it, maybe there's enough similarities in features to start looking at it.

Bonus: The CL-PS7110 series was used in the Epoc Psion5.

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: Stiletto] #35530 11/08/07 01:26 PM
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MooglyGuy Offline
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Actually, decapping wouldn't really help at all; it's only useful for giving very general descriptions of the surface features of a chipset. Decapping companies being able to reconstruct a map of registers and their functions is still a long way off. frown

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: MooglyGuy] #35531 11/08/07 01:55 PM
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R. Belmont Offline
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I dunno, I don't think Apple's done anything scary in custom logic ever, with the possible exception of the later-generation floppy controllers (and even then I think the lack of support for them in Linux/BSD is more a matter of their general lack of usefulness once you have an HDD and Ethernet going than anything else). It should be possible to work out what's going on smile

Last edited by R. Belmont; 11/08/07 02:03 PM.
Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: ranger_lennier] #35532 11/08/07 02:20 PM
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ranger_lennier Offline
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Originally Posted By ranger_lennier


These are considered Wanted Dumps for MAME, actually. The Super Famicom Box was a pay-for-play system used in Japanese hotels. I've passed it along to Guru.


...who is somewhat interested, but has no money for it. Anyone want to chip in?

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: ranger_lennier] #35533 11/08/07 03:04 PM
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incog Offline
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do we just donate though the usual way?

edit: btw I won the 2 BBC Bridge Companion Carts, Im counting up all my spare change to see what I can donate to the guru

Last edited by incog; 11/08/07 03:05 PM.
Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: incog] #35545 11/09/07 01:59 AM
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ranger_lennier Offline
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Originally Posted By incog
do we just donate though the usual way?

edit: btw I won the 2 BBC Bridge Companion Carts, Im counting up all my spare change to see what I can donate to the guru


Well, to donate for a particular item, we'd need to raise enough money to buy it and either make arrangements with him or just buy it ourselves and send it to him. Obviously he'd appreciate any donations, but just sending some spare change, there's no guarantee what it will be used for. Any idea what these are actually worth? If we can get them for $100 a-piece, it's probably doable, but I'm not sure if that's realistic or not.

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: ranger_lennier] #35547 11/09/07 02:05 AM
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incog Offline
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You under estimate how much spare change I had, haha.

46 in total but I'll round it up to 50, going by the current exhange rate thats a little more than $100.

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: ranger_lennier] #35551 11/09/07 03:45 AM
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incog Offline
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Originally Posted By ranger_lennier
Any idea what these are actually worth? If we can get them for $100 a-piece, it's probably doable, but I'm not sure if that's realistic or not.


Well I've never seen a snes version of a hotel system before and had no idea that MAMEDev is interested in these systems but it does makes sense considering they are coin operated. I don't know how many other carts for this system exist... the only info ive found is here http://www.tv-gamekan.com/famcmbox.htm

The photo shows carts that are identical to the ones in the auction.

Re: MESS Dumping Project ? [Re: incog] #35568 11/09/07 11:12 PM
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ranger_lennier Offline
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My earlier research indicated that those two carts are the only ones. If you can cover one at the opening bid, I can take care of the other. If we want to deal with competition, someone else will have to contribute.

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