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Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4769 02/17/05 09:27 AM
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sicklittlemonkey Offline
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The main differences were between US & European versions of the ][ series. For instance on my European //e, the hires orange and blue were darker than shown in the Beagle Bros poster link above. In fact they were actually closer to the double hires magenta and dark blue.

Unfortunately, my own copy of that BB poster and //e, IIGS etc are 8812km away. :-( But I should be able to obtain US & European palette RGB values and compare them to what's in MESS.

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4770 02/28/05 05:07 PM
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XulChris Offline OP
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Got this screenshot from someone using a //e

tkmame.retrogames.com/40600062.JPG

Ofcouse color values depend on how the monitor is adjusted. But this clearly shows that the Yellow color in MESS is wrong.

I was surprised to see Brown looks that bad on a real machine.

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4771 03/01/05 12:49 AM
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Justin Offline
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I have a //c and a color monitor so if there's any tests I can do I'd be happy to photograph them. It would have to be a BASIC program short enough to type in though since I don't have any means of transferring Apple disk images.

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4772 03/01/05 04:03 AM
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XulChris Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin:
I have a //c and a color monitor so if there's any tests I can do I'd be happy to photograph them. It would have to be a BASIC program short enough to type in though since I don't have any means of transferring Apple disk images.
Here is a program to display the colors:

1 GR:FOR I=0 TO 31:COLOR=I/2:VLIN 0,39 AT I+3:NEXT I

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4773 03/01/05 06:49 AM
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Here are some test images from the Catakig emulator for MacOS. I've been in touch with the author, Colin Klipsch, for a number of years, and he's carefully matched the palette with a US Apple. Notice that he has options for amber and greenscreen modes, something I did on my own emulator. Great for those of us who remember ... ;-)

http://catakig.sourceforge.net/sshots.html

I've been in touch with him recently, requesting the palette values. His emulator also has a great audio filter which allows near perfect playback from software like Tetris ][.

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4774 03/02/05 05:20 AM
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XulChris Offline OP
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Those colors look great! Hope you can get those values and Bletch approves them (I think he will). I am planning on eventually coding a DIP switch in MESS to switch between a color and monochrome monitor. I had a green monitor with my original Apple, so it would be nice to reproduce that effect in MESS.

I'm sure MAME must have some kind of audio filters, or ways to apply filters. Unfortunately my knowledge of that part of the code is pretty close to nothing. However, my guess is that it would be fairly easy to add a filter to MESS. I'm sure the guy who does the discrete sound in MAME could fix it in no time.

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4775 03/02/05 09:21 AM
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Justin Offline
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Here's the results of that test program on my //c (multiple pictures because they didn't all come out the same):

On a Commodore 1702 monitor that I'm not completely confident in the color settings for:


On a SVGA monitor through a TV->VGA converter:

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4776 03/02/05 10:19 AM
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Actually filters *just* became possible in the MAME architecture with Aaron's 0.93 rewrite.

And yeah, Catakig's palette looks awesome. Someone should grab the source off SourceForge and see what the magic is wink

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4777 03/02/05 01:25 PM
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Catakig's author has replied. For some reason (in 1997) he chose colours that were HTML safe. This doesn't mean they're not good: he was eyeballing the composite output of an Apple II when he matched them up.

In lores order, and RGB range 0..5: 000, 401, 003, 405, 222, 024, 045, 210, 520, 222, 535, 050, 550, 153, 555

Re calculating the colours, I was going to mention that the "someone with good digital logic kung-fu" would also need black belts in NTSC and colour space math. Interesting then that Colin has also tried and rejected the very palette that MESS is using. ("Too bright," he says.)

Here's the lowdown from the seemingly knowledgable source, Robert Munafo:
http://www.apple2.org.za/mirrors/ground.icaen.uiowa.edu/MiscInfo/Emulators/xapple2

Pics above have some colours closer to Colin's, and some to Rob's. And there are also European colours ...

Re: Apple2 low-res color palette #4778 03/02/05 08:17 PM
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XulChris Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by sicklittlemonkey:
Here's the lowdown from the seemingly knowledgable source, Robert Munafo:
http://www.apple2.org.za/mirrors/ground.icaen.uiowa.edu/MiscInfo/Emulators/xapple2
These colors are the ones that are in MESS right now.

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