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Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: etabeta78] #58600
01/27/10 10:17 AM
01/27/10 10:17 AM
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wimpyrbx Offline OP
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
Originally Posted By wimpyrbx
either way i guess it's normal that bsnes ans zsnes runs much better than "mess-snes" since mess is more a "compability" project than a "optimized" project? (think i read that somewhere)


replace "compatibility" with "accuracy", and that will explain the reason of the high CPU requirement

however, accuracy is not always against optimization: bsnes is the most accurate existing SNES emu (and indeed it requires more CPU power than ZSNES) but it is also very optimized (that's why it is faster than MESS).

that said, MESS will never be as fast as BSNES (because it is based on MAME architecture, which has to sacrifice some system-specific optimization to be able to emulate very different kinds of hardware)


accuracy.. that was it smile Does this mean if i boosted my computer so it would stay at 100% it would be as good as in bsnes? (i would bet no due to the optimization?).

reason for discussing the optimization is because i'm wondering what would be the best way to setup a backend of emulators.. and mess seemed to be a very nice backend (meaning all-in-one and not 20+ different emus with different layout and behaviour).

i'm part of a project called Xtras which has collected/created artwork, gameplay, screenshots, cartridge art, ingame maps, manuals, guides++ in a huge pack. This pack is intended to be used on the XBOX1 console, but I'm looking for a way to introduce and use this on other platforms.

i know there are some emu-frontends out there, hyperspin-gameex-maximus.. but they are rather limited as to supporting all the different parts of 'Xtras' and they are very 'hard' to configure for the 'not-so-technical' people). using mess as backend WOULD be insanely nice if it was optimized.

Without meaning anything bad about Mess at all (like i said: great project!) i'd have to say it's not usable for what i was planning/hoping for smile

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58603
01/27/10 01:35 PM
01/27/10 01:35 PM
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If fullscreen is slower than a small window, you need to make sure you have hardware stretching (on Windows use -video d3d or if you're using the GUI frontend change the video type to "Direct3D").

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58604
01/27/10 01:41 PM
01/27/10 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By wimpyrbx
i'm part of a project called Xtras which has collected/created artwork, gameplay, screenshots, cartridge art, ingame maps, manuals, guides++ in a huge pack. This pack is intended to be used on the XBOX1 console, but I'm looking for a way to introduce and use this on other platforms.


Ah-ha! Okay, I get you now, I thought you were going to go the other way. IIRC the people who make the artwork pack (http://mess.redump.net/artwork) and other such people (http://www.bannister.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=49799#Post49799) may be interested in some of this stuff. Of course, a MESS screenshot pack would only come from MESS. smile

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: Stiletto] #58608
01/27/10 02:47 PM
01/27/10 02:47 PM
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well we're near to complete for about 20 consoles so this MESS testing was to see if it was able to serve as a replacement for other emulators since it's an all-in-one emulator.

thanks for the links i'll check them out after work:)

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58632
01/28/10 02:01 AM
01/28/10 02:01 AM
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one thing. if i find an author that wants to contribute to optimization to for example the NES or SNES library in MESS would he just have to contact you guys running this project ?

or are you a closed project not wanting "outsiders" tampering with the emulation code ?

(see.. i'm not giving up hehe)

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58633
01/28/10 04:55 AM
01/28/10 04:55 AM
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Depends what you mean by optimization.

If you mean "making the emulation more accurate to the original hardware, no per-game hacks, no reuse of GPL code w/o special exemption, in the MAME/MESS framework and philosophy, and possibly fixing bugs in the process" - then I don't see why not. Those drivers you mentioned do more-or-less have current maintainers, though, so they would definitely want to contact MESSDEV on the forums or otherwise.

If you mean "making the emulation run decently on a Pentium IV 2.0 GHz" or something like that, no, MESSDEV isn't really interested. Performance optimization tends to be an afterthought, unless there's some sort of glaringly obvious bug.

---

"Optimization" to me means "making it faster/run 'better'", so I'm a little puzzled by your choice of words.

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: Stiletto] #58636
01/28/10 12:02 PM
01/28/10 12:02 PM
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well with "optimization" i basically mean to offer the best result when running roms.

making a game-playing frontend for alot of consoles today would mean one would have to use 10+ different one-system emulators, all with different setup and behaviour. MESS would be a huge improvement if the different systems was as "good" as the best one-system emulators out there.

that's what i meant.. and i know i might be stepping on some toes hoping for someone to make them better.. hopefully someone sees this the same way i do, if not it's still a great project smile

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58637
01/28/10 01:09 PM
01/28/10 01:09 PM
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etabeta78 Offline
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Originally Posted By wimpyrbx
well with "optimization" i basically mean to offer the best result when running roms.


the problem is that there are ususally two ways to obtain a great compatibility: adding a lot of hacks to fix single games which have problem, or properly emulate all the required components in an accurate way.

MESS tries to only follow the latter approach

Originally Posted By wimpyrbx
making a game-playing frontend for alot of consoles today would mean one would have to use 10+ different one-system emulators, all with different setup and behaviour. MESS would be a huge improvement if the different systems was as "good" as the best one-system emulators out there.


the problem is that at the moment many standalone emus are still way better than MESS for both compatibility and accuracy: e.g. Nestopia (for NES), BSNES (for SNES), Handy (for Lynx), WinUAE (for Amiga), Gambatte (for Gameboy), VBA (for GBA)

OTOH, we are offering more or less the same quality as standalone emus for some systems: Atari 2600, SMS & GG, Megadrive, NeoGeo Pocket, CD-i, Apple II or C64. But more powerful CPUs are generally needed for these in MESS than in other emus (e.g. Stella, Meka, Kega or Vice)

And for many computers our emulation is probably the best around, if not the only one available

Originally Posted By wimpyrbx
that's what i meant.. and i know i might be stepping on some toes hoping for someone to make them better.. hopefully someone sees this the same way i do, if not it's still a great project smile


feel free to submit patches following the instruction at the compile page of mess.org of mess.redump.net

in general, we love external submissions if they help to make our emulation more accurate (any improvement to the project is way more important than personal egos...), it's one of the reason why MESS source available for download...

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: etabeta78] #58638
01/28/10 01:20 PM
01/28/10 01:20 PM
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I'd contribute myself if I had the coding skills..

I'll keep an eye on the updates as this would really be the best way to go for a backend.. Excellent work to everyone involved smile

I'll try the different systems you talked about to see how well they play along. It's really only Snes I've had "issues" with.. Thanks again!

Re: savestates for nes, snes, genesis and other co [Re: wimpyrbx] #58654
01/28/10 06:44 PM
01/28/10 06:44 PM
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I don't think devs would turn down speed-optimization work out of hand if it was offerred, check out Harmony's recent work on N64 speed for example. It's more a matter of not being interested in doing it themselves if the driver already runs full speed on modern processors.

Of course anything that sacrifices accuracy or craps up the code readability just to run on a Pentium II is probably not going to be accepted, but there's usually room for improvement within those constraints.

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