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Re: Fixed software lists [Re: Haze] #60832 04/04/10 04:51 PM
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R. Belmont Online Content OP
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Yeah, a full-flavor -listxml is vital for harnessing the PokeROMs to our own evil ends smile

Quote:
I'd also look at things the other way. If MAME and MESS are similar it could make it easier for MESS developers to work on MAME.


That's very true. Nearly all of the major unemulated hardware remaining for MAME in the future is PC or console-derived.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #60833 04/04/10 05:02 PM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By R. Belmont
Yeah, a full-flavor -listxml is vital for harnessing the PokeROMs to our own evil ends smile


Well I was thinking more in terms of Database sites like MAWS too. A giant site with the entire MESS output would be useful. For many games on obscure systems, even if they are emulated, the only reference you can find ANYWHERE is a low quality screenshot, or a youtube video of somebody running it on their desktop.

For such a purpose you wouldn't really want filtered data.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: Haze] #60835 04/04/10 05:27 PM
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look, I don't know at all how MAWS or ProgettoEMMA translate the xml into a website (we should ask to cutebutwrong or s_bastian), but I don't think is so hard to
* create mess.xml with -lx
* parse it as usual
* extract all the <softwarelist> items (they are already present in xml, as if they were devices)
* for each of them, run -listsoftware to create the software subpages

it seems to me that it can be made as automated as only parsing the -lx output...
but at the same time, if I want to only extract the hardware info without the software ones, I still would be able to...

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: etabeta78] #60836 04/04/10 05:33 PM
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@judge: windows build (clean) fails to compile here:

Code:
Compiling src/osd/windows/d3d9intf.c...
In file included from src/mess/image.h:17,
                 from src/mess/messopts.h:10,
                 from src/mess/mess.h:13,
                 from src/emu/emu.h:95,
                 from src/osd/windows/d3d9intf.c:48:
src/mess/softlist.h:22: error: expected unqualified-id before 'struct'
src/mess/softlist.h:22: error: expected ';' before 'struct'
In file included from src/mess/image.h:17,
                 from src/mess/messopts.h:10,
                 from src/mess/mess.h:13,
                 from src/emu/emu.h:95,
                 from src/osd/windows/d3d9intf.c:48:
src/mess/softlist.h:53: error: expected ',' or '...' before 'struct'
make: *** [obj/windows/fastmess/osd/windows/d3d9intf.o] Error 1

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: etabeta78] #60838 04/04/10 05:48 PM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
look, I don't know at all how MAWS or ProgettoEMMA translate the xml into a website (we should ask to cutebutwrong or s_bastian), but I don't think is so hard to
* create mess.xml with -lx
* parse it as usual
* extract all the <softwarelist> items (they are already present in xml, as if they were devices)
* for each of them, run -listsoftware to create the software subpages

it seems to me that it can be made as automated as only parsing the -lx output...
but at the same time, if I want to only extract the hardware info without the software ones, I still would be able to...


but WHY?

There hasn't been a single compelling reason given to be different other than 'because we can' and 'people can work around the differences, so they don't matter' You're not giving any good reason for the differences to exist in the first place.

The XML lists are there, what's wrong with allowing MESS to output all the data, in an identical format to MESS, but with a 'platform' flag for each entry. It's an established and understood, standard format.

Otherwise you may as well not have a -listxml at all, and just tell people to directory list the folder and load the xml dats directly.

This is what I mean by differences for the sake of differences and change for the sake of change.

If MAME/MESS do things in a similar way it's also healthier in the long-term, there is less temptation to start introducing things like the gross hack that is/was the ingame Windows-specific menubar if the mantra is to be equal where possible, and only differ where there is no real choice.

Note, I'm not saying MAME is always right and MESS is always wrong, but the projects should be able to influence each other, not end up going in opposite directions which will eventually cause nothing but usability and code-sharing problems. (need I mention pinMAME which rendered itself unreabable, and unmaintainable, and unable to benefit from any real MAME improvements by taking such a path? Come the day MAME implements proper votrax speech they simply won't be able to benefit without a complete rewrite; likewise the PinMAME test cases can no longer be used for development of such a core because the codebase is so incompatible, a situation MESS/MAME should always avoid.)

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #60852 04/04/10 11:32 PM
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Justin Offline
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Originally Posted By R. Belmont
Yeah, a full-flavor -listxml is vital for harnessing the PokeROMs to our own evil ends smile


This. MESS already doesn't have much "market power", requiring anything fancy to get at the software lists is shooting ourselves in the foot IMO. (Look how many ROM managers support MESS' CRC / HSI files, which have been around since the beginning....) If it's in the -listxml then ROM managers and frontends more or less have to do something with it, and it becomes much more of a clear-cut "MESS set" for hoarder types.

Yeah, it'll make the output stupidly big, but then MAME's is already pretty huge, it's not like anything but automated tools will be looking at it anyway.

The software lists as they exist in SVN now are pretty spartan anyway, if there was a bunch of extra junk in there about the Swahili release date or the developer's favourite colour then there would be more of an argument for keeping it out IMO, but as it stands any real front-end or ROM manager is going to need all the information in there anyway so why make them work for it.

Last edited by Justin; 04/04/10 11:39 PM.
Re: Fixed software lists [Re: Justin] #60885 04/06/10 06:46 AM
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Curt Coder Offline
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Can the ROM sizes/lengths be specified in hexadecimal? Much easier to read than decimal...

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: Curt Coder] #60886 04/06/10 06:52 AM
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etabeta78 Offline
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I think judge followed the (weird) format of MAME listxml output. I agree it would be easier to always use hex (maybe adding "0x" in front, to help frontends and clrmame to keep backward compatibility?)

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #60887 04/06/10 07:01 AM
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Anna Wu Offline
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etabeta78 check your PM (2x)

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: etabeta78] #60888 04/06/10 07:06 AM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
I think judge followed the (weird) format of MAME listxml output. I agree it would be easier to always use hex (maybe adding "0x" in front, to help frontends and clrmame to keep backward compatibility?)


Well sticking to a compatible format (decimal) in the -listxml format is ok, and a good idea. The output of that should mirror MAME as closely as possible.

I'd use hexidecimal in the actual software list files tho, to mirror the internal ROM loading macros they mimic. It's easier for human reading, as Curt says.

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