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Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Anna Wu] #66749 01/13/11 06:25 PM
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Micko Offline
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Well actually it is loading from rom's path thing is only that if you use clrmamepro then you will get warnings and so on since you have more files then expected, so it's easier to have it in separate folder.




Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Anna Wu] #66750 01/13/11 06:34 PM
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etabeta78 Offline
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I'm not 100% convinced: we have to retain support for combo like list:shortname and list:shortname:part to launch e.g. gb games in gbcolor (and viceversa)

mess -gbcolor -cart gameboy:smland

and the code is already quite ugly (trying the various possible combinations of list:software:partname).

However, at least trying roms/ as well makes sense. In this way one can include in roms/bublbobl.zip both the arcade and all the home conversions launching them all with no problems wink

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Micko] #66751 01/13/11 06:37 PM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By Micko
Well actually it is loading from rom's path thing is only that if you use clrmamepro then you will get warnings and so on since you have more files then expected, so it's easier to have it in separate folder.


The megatech.xml will mirror what's in the megatech.c exactly..

there won't be excessive files in that case (and providing it's properly maintained clrmame won't even need to import that SL), so at least for my MAME use case traversing down to the base rom path would simply be easier for everybody.

quick test of best match -- looking good, would definitely prefer 10 matches like MAME rather than 5 tho. User-friendliness just went up by about 5000% tho :-)



Last edited by Haze; 01/13/11 06:38 PM.
Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Haze] #66752 01/13/11 06:48 PM
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btw, I'd still like to see some kind of quick-start configuration layer built on top of this as some part of the road map. (something to tie a system configuration, and device configuration together under a single name.

As mentioned before this could be your
mess system quickstart
launch params

for basic use of something like PCE-CD the syntax and knowledge of the PCE system required is still too complex for your average user.

the current -cart and -floppy options would still exist for if you wanted to use a quickstart and override options in it.

this of course needs significant amounts of further work, but with everything maturing well I thought I'd mention it again.

this would also be more flexible than the simple 'messram' thing that exists at the moment, instead that could simply become a series of easily creatable and easily tweakable quickstart xmls for the systems, including other configuration data too.

will need planning out properly tho, like any major feature :-)

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Haze] #66753 01/13/11 06:50 PM
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etabeta78 Offline
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Originally Posted By Haze
quick test of best match -- looking good, would definitely prefer 10 matches like MAME rather than 5 tho. User-friendliness just went up by about 5000% tho :-)


I had reduced to 5 because of multiple lists being scanned, but I think we can push it back to 10 now that Micko sent me a fix for that.

I fear there could be some weird combo of system + device resulting in more than one list to be scanned, but it is so uncommon that people can leave with 20 outputs in that (rare) case wink

concerning user friendliness, I wanted for a long time
- configurable snapnames (also to involve AntoPISA with our softlists wink )
- best matches for lists
- proper xml output for listsoftware (otherwise, lazy Roman will never do any work on the clrmame side)
- no more empty files created if you enter the wrong softlist name for writable devices (e.g. cassettes)

all of those are done at last. I just needed some spare time, and these 2 days with fever arrived at the perfect moment smile


Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Haze] #66754 01/13/11 06:56 PM
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etabeta78 Offline
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Originally Posted By Haze
btw, I'd still like to see some kind of quick-start configuration layer built on top of this as some part of the road map. (something to tie a system configuration, and device configuration together under a single name.

As mentioned before this could be your
mess system quickstart
launch params

for basic use of something like PCE-CD the syntax and knowledge of the PCE system required is still too complex for your average user.

the current -cart and -floppy options would still exist for if you wanted to use a quickstart and override options in it.

this of course needs significant amounts of further work, but with everything maturing well I thought I'd mention it again.

this would also be more flexible than the simple 'messram' thing that exists at the moment, instead that could simply become a series of easily creatable and easily tweakable quickstart xmls for the systems, including other configuration data too.

will need planning out properly tho, like any major feature :-)


well for a pcecd you need

mess pcecd -cart cdcart.bin -cdrom whatever.chd

it is not uber-easy but I think it can work while we find a solution about quikstarts. I personally don't feel the need for it, but if anyone want to add it I'll be happy to test extensively the feature.

in the meanwhile, I will suggest average users to use the UI or the amazing qmc2 (which supports already lists) if they do forget the mnemonics

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: etabeta78] #66755 01/13/11 06:59 PM
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Haze Offline
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yeah, those things are helping a lot.

best match suggestions also highlight some strange choices in the softwarelists.

E:\mame130111>mame genesis -cart globalgladiators

"globalgladiators" approximately matches the following
supported software items (best match first):

* Software list "Sega MegaDrive/Genesis cartridges" matches:
global Global Gladiators (Euro)
mickm Mick & Mack as the Global Gladiators (USA)
mickmp Mick & Mack as the Global Gladiators (USA, Prototype)
...

In reality all games have the same title.. I guess some of the titles are taken from the box art, the setnames could be cleaned up at least ;-)

Anyway, with this all working it seems more worthwhile to actually start tidying up the list a bit, ensuring things actually work.. It's becoming more on par with where HazeMD was as far as accessibility / usability is concerned.

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: etabeta78] #66756 01/13/11 07:04 PM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By etabeta78

well for a pcecd you need

mess pcecd -cart cdcart.bin -cdrom whatever.chd

it is not uber-easy but I think it can work while we find a solution about quikstarts. I personally don't feel the need for it, but if anyone want to add it I'll be happy to test extensively the feature.


I'm aware that's the current syntax, I just think it's a bridge too far for most people still tho.

It requires you to know that the system needed a special cd cart, and it requires you to know 2 device names, and know that MESS requires you to specify both.

the 'easier' (?) alternative might be to add a dependency system in the software lists, where every CD game has the CD card software and device listed as a dependency, so if you don't specify one directly it will use the listed dependency instead and tell you that it's done that. However that's less flexible for other future uses.

Multi-disc games will sill need a way to recognize software / media as being related to the current software, not currently mounted to a device, but available in the internal GUI as related media. There are one or two SegaCD games which are multi-disc, so we'll probably hit that once they start running. I guess there are already things with multiple floppies tho ;-)

While MESS will never be quite the plug-and-play solution that most console emulators are (due to the documentation aspect, and wanting to support real correct sets + document what was released etc.) I still think it's important that usability is brought from 'Brick Wall' level to 'MAME' level. The recent changes do a lot towards that and the fact that MAME merging is even feasible a testament to it :-)

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: Anna Wu] #66757 01/13/11 07:42 PM
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etabeta78 Offline
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I think that multidisc can already be handled in current svn: you put them in a single <software> (because they are such), and you put different discs in different "parts" (the list equivalent of ROM_REGIONs). with e.g. tags "disc1" & "disc2", see fm7_flop for examples.

then you can launch the disc you want with

mess segacd -cdrom game:disc1

for this it might be even more of help to have some sort of quikstart option (if you need specific disks to be mounted first), but I think there are more urgent aspects which need to be taken care of (e.g. multidisc handling in UI, given that the you can only mount the first disc from the UI at the moment and there is no equivalent of the commandline above)

Re: SVN builds - new driver flood [Re: etabeta78] #66758 01/13/11 07:46 PM
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Haze Offline
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
I think that multidisc can already be handled in current svn: you put them in a single <software> (because they are such), and you put different discs in different "parts" (the list equivalent of ROM_REGIONs). with e.g. tags "disc1" & "disc2", see fm7_flop for examples.

then you can launch the disc you want with

mess segacd -cdrom game:disc1

for this it might be even more of help to have some sort of quikstart option (if you need specific disks to be mounted first), but I think there are more urgent aspects which need to be taken care of (e.g. multidisc handling in UI, given that the you can only mount the first disc from the UI at the moment and there is no equivalent of the commandline above)


Well my UI preference would be a 'related media' menu in the TAB menu (and maybe some simple previous/next buttons which could be mapped, that could get complex when you have multiple devices tho)

"Tab -> Mountable devices -> Floppy0/Floppy1/Floppy2 -> Related Media/All listed Media/User media"

There are multiple ways the XML side of things could be handled, as I mentioned, it will require proper planning to ensure it works in the required cases :-) (allowing the user to add blank save disks too etc.)

Anyway, as you've said, plenty to work on for now anyway, the existing software lists still need bashing into shape in some places :-)

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