Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 101 of 120 1 2 99 100 101 102 103 119 120
Re: Fixed software lists [Re: ASH] #67510 02/15/11 07:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
etabeta78 Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
Originally Posted By ASH
Question @ Eta

would this then remove (or filter out) pal carts for the US,JP SNES (in the software lists) and if it does then why would you need an error if loaded?


IMHO, those should not be removed from the Internal UI: you might very well want to launch those for testing purpose in a not fully compatible system and the warning should only be displayed to launches by mistake

otoh, filtering might be a possibility in MESSUI, but support is still preliminary, I dunno...

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67521 02/16/11 09:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
etabeta78 Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
Ok. I added some code for this in the latest svn (rev. 10463): try launching the various versions of virtua racing in the megadriv.c drivers (mind that gensvp is set as USA, with region selection through confsetting and this is still not yet fully detected by the compatibility checks, so that MESS thinks is always USA... but as said in the commit, this is a proof of concept wink ).

The pros I see in this implementation are:

1. <feature> code can be easily re-used
2. the default compatibilities and the checks to be performed are chosen by the author of the driver (e.g. in current megadriv.xml, the code assumes all carts to be "JUE" unless otherwise specified, and you have to add the proper <info> only if a cart requires explicitly a specific region, see vr/vru/vrj)
3. games requiring additional cpus can be detected as well (e.g. SVP in the vr case, but you can use similar code to warn if the driver has the wrong TMS version, once we emulate it wink )

I'm sure there is space to improvements, but I think this is the right direction smile

If no structural objections arise, I will later update DTD and the -listsoftware output to include this new <info> node

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67522 02/16/11 10:02 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
H
Haze Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
Well.. not the best example, because eventually the SVP should be installed / activated based on the cart alone, so it's always compatible (except when you also have the 32x attached ;D)

but yeah.. I see what you've done.. still not 100% convinced by it, but we'll see where it goes.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67747 03/01/11 05:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
R
ReadOnly Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
etabeta I see you posted at the No-Intro forum that MESS soft lists were about games on real cartridges made by real companies. I totally agree with your criteria. However I don't get why Gamecube rips are allowed in the N64 list (at least last time I check, been a while), aren't they gamecube material and will be someday added to the gamecube list. They will be redundant then. I would advise to remove them from the N64 list.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67748 03/01/11 05:57 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
H
Haze Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
I imagine they were used with cart copiers and the like even if they weren't original releases.

Several of the Megadrive sets are this way, rips of the SegaNet stuff and the like. Technically at the point they're ripped and used on real hardware they become bootleg versions.

As long as they're appropriately marked and work on real hardware I think it's fair.

There is a world of difference between emulating a GameCube emulating an N64, and emulating an N64 running a bootleg rip from a GameCube release. For this reason I don't think they become redundant.

It ain't pretty, but it's the reality of the matter, which is more important to MAME / MESS than 'purity'

For similar reasons things like the bootlegged version of Ironclad (NeoGeo) made from the Wii release will eventually be supported.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67749 03/01/11 06:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
R
ReadOnly Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
The tag "ripped from gamecube" on these files seems to indicate they are just that, files extracted from a gamecube image. They don't seem to be dumps by the definition of rip. etabeta will correct me if I'm wrong but I never heard of such bootleg for the Nintendo 64.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67750 03/01/11 07:37 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
H
Haze Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
As soon as they're ripped people can (and will be) using them with the copier devices etc. tho.

Just as every DS rom you see for download is being used on somebody's flash card somewhere...

As long as they're not 'bad' I see no real issue as long as they're documented correctly.

Better they be documented than 'unknown' there's nothing technically wrong with them.

MESS isn't 'nointro'

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67751 03/01/11 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
etabeta78 Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
while haze is right and megadrive has showed that these kind of rips get eventually burned on real carts (like it happens with many NES protos getting sold as reproduction carts), in this specific case those dumps were temporary included to allow to be tested in the drivers.

we can remove them at a later stage if we decide to be stricter in the selection of titles allowed to enter in the lists, but it would be difficult to recover them if no collection gets them included ever or to be sure nobody tries to submit them as newer revisions instead of the rips they are...

as long as their origin is clearly marked in the description and there is no risk to think they come from real carts, I see no big deal with them (nor with the similar PC/GBA/GC rips present in the NES list, and I plan to include as well the Wii anniversary releases of SMB and DK in 2013)

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67753 03/02/11 10:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
R
ReadOnly Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 351
eta you don't need to worry about those being preserved, they are already preserved by redump.org in their GC database. And someday they'll make it into MESS like the PlayStation currently. Haze stated previously there is a huge difference between running a GC which emulates the Nintendo 64 and running the Nintendo 64 itself, and this is exactly why they shouldn't be in the Nintendo 64 list. The original Nintendo 64 games were patched to run on GC (the most obvious change is the color of buttons in the screen matching the GC joystick) , they might no longer be bug proof on the Nintendo 64 hardware, and someday it is possible that bugs arise on those in the Nintendo 64 driver of MESS. Then fixing them blindly would be a mistake. The question is: do those files help preserving the Nintendo 64 hardware accurately, I don't think so. Of course this isn't a priority matter but something should be done eventually.

The conclusion is I advice to stick to "real cartridges by real company". By those criteria these file are eliminated.

Re: Fixed software lists [Re: R. Belmont] #67754 03/02/11 12:37 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
H
Haze Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,626
I think 'We'll cross that bridge when we come to it' is the most appropriate call here.

The N64 emulation is too preliminary to be making any judgement calls on such issues just yet. You seem absolutely obsessed with taking things away at any cost when really there is no need, at least not at this present time. It's OCDish and annoying.

I'm not saying they'll never be removed, I'm just saying that it makes very little sense to start scrubbing 'clean' lists for systems where the emulation doesn't even run the majority of the titles yet.


Page 101 of 120 1 2 99 100 101 102 103 119 120

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 44 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Forum Statistics
Forums9
Topics8,818
Posts116,113
Members4,921
Most Online890
Jan 17th, 2020
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3