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Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Stiletto] #73916
10/28/11 03:54 AM
10/28/11 03:54 AM
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jclampy Offline
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Hi Stiletto,

So what is wrong with this?


I think I made that at shadow_mask_alpha of 0.15 or 0.20, if you cranked
it higher towards 1.0 then it would like as dark as in the real screen
comparison.


Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Just Desserts] #73955
10/29/11 01:19 PM
10/29/11 01:19 PM
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jclampy Offline
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Anybody know how this is being done? The way the R/G/B beams are being portrayed. I don't think is possible with an 'overlay' .png file.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8275/sf2scanlines.png

It's from a link here but I can't get it to open;
http://www.bannister.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51881#Post51881


Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Just Desserts] #73957
10/29/11 02:55 PM
10/29/11 02:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,687
Trondheim, Norway
etabeta78 Offline
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etabeta78  Offline
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the link does not work simply because the forum address has changed wink
proper link

http://forums.bannister.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=51881#Post51881

the effect is obtained by using the GLSL filters available in SDLMAME/MESS, if I read correctly

Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Just Desserts] #73958
10/30/11 01:54 AM
10/30/11 01:54 AM
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jclampy Offline
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I started to think about beam intensity and made some fine tunings to my aperture4x. The result is suppose to be a shadow mask that is a little less 'harsh'. Since I am following a 4x magnification throughout my process; being 4x bigger means it will be more noticeable. With the way the intensity of beams (or should I say phosphur) when lit up would expand over the shadow mask, then the 'vertical lines' effect would not appear as harsh. I have tried to incorporate this idea into the aperture.png, I also tweaked my HLSL colour settings to try and give things a bit more punch.

Here are some testing screenshots I took to show current status, posted is a just under 6MB .zip file, I find the .png compression does an adequate job at preserving quality;
http://www.mediafire.com/?c6xaixgwu8ujb0j

I will update the release on my blog after I decide whether to tweak it further or not.

Edit;
Minor tuning of HLSL colour settings and tested some other games.

Last edited by jclampy; 10/30/11 04:21 AM.

Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Just Desserts] #73960
10/30/11 03:33 AM
10/30/11 03:33 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 41
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SoltanGris42 Offline
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Here's a photo of an arcade monitor. Notice how fine the aperture pattern is (large x and y count in our hlsl language)



The rest of the images are all made with the following aperture.png



The do not have indentical settings for a couple reasons.

1) If you keep the x and y counts the same, you still get a different amount on the screen for games of different resolution.

2) Depending on your output resolution, as well as issue 1) above, you NEED to adjust the "Shadow Mask X Count" to avoid rainbow or other artifacts. Otherwise I recommend setting it as high as you can to avoid the artifacts, though.

3) You can make the scanlines and/or the aperture grill pattern more or less prominent depending on your taste. Older games look better with stronger effects.

4) So overall, I adjusted "Shadow Mask X Count" and "Shadow Mask Darkness" and "Scanline Darkness" to get the effect the way I wanted. I also adjust the x and y focus. A lot of games look better with x focus set to 1.0 or 1.5 and y focus set to 0.5 or 1.0.













And here is one more that you can compare to the sf2 opengl shader that was used before in sdlmame and sdlmess. They don't look the same, of course.




The basic HLSL section I used for these looks like this, and in fact this is what produces the sf2 pic above. It works for 1280x960 res but you should set shadow_mask_x_count higher than 285 if you run a higher resolution. 356 works okay at 1920x1200

Code:
#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlsl_enable               1
hlslpath                  hlsl
hlsl_ini_read             0
hlsl_ini_write            0
hlslini                   %g
hlsl_prescale_x           4
hlsl_prescale_y           4
hlsl_preset               -1
hlsl_write                
hlsl_snap_width           4096
hlsl_snap_height          3072
shadow_mask_alpha         0.60
shadow_mask_texture       aperture.png
shadow_mask_x_count       285
shadow_mask_y_count       240
shadow_mask_usize         0.3750
shadow_mask_vsize         0.3125
curvature                 0.0
pincushion                0.0
scanline_alpha            0.5
scanline_size             1.0
scanline_height           0.7
scanline_bright_scale     2.0
scanline_bright_offset    0.0
scanline_jitter           0.0
defocus                   0.0,0.0
converge_x                -0.2,0.0,0.0
converge_y                0.2,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x         0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y         0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio                 1.0,0.0,0.0
grn_ratio                 0.0,1.0,0.0
blu_ratio                 0.0,0.0,1.0
saturation                1.1
offset                    0.0,0.0,0.0
scale                     1.0,1.0,1.0
power                     1.0,1.0,1.0
floor                     0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life             0.0,0.0,0.0
yiq_enable                0
yiq_cc                    3.59754545
yiq_a                     0.5
yiq_b                     0.5
yiq_o                     0.0
yiq_p                     1.0
yiq_n                     1.0
yiq_y                     6.0
yiq_i                     1.2
yiq_q                     0.6
yiq_scan_time             52.6
yiq_phase_count           2



Last edited by SoltanGris42; 10/30/11 04:02 AM.
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: SoltanGris42] #73963
10/30/11 04:49 AM
10/30/11 04:49 AM
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jclampy Offline
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Hi SoltanGris42,

After searching online last night I still couldn't find anything that supports your aperture stripe methodology.

Did you make that up yourself? I mean, nothing wrong with that if you had. Anyone can make and use any aperture pattern they wish. smile I mean, I am only using an rgb slot pattern to be authentic. If a circle dot pattern or an LCD pattern looks better then so be it. Even if some fantasy or scientific pattern can look better then so be it.

For me though, I prefer to stick with what I have found information about, which is that the individual beams are rgb and why not just show them as that.

I can understand if the magnification of the image wasn't enough to support the number of pixels required to show the individual beams as rgb then you may think of some kind of mixing of colours to compensate.

The way I think about it though, I am of the opinion that a 3x magnification is enough to portray rgb beams. If you want more detail then go to a higher magnification, see the 12x one I put together on my blog.

At the end of the day your not going to see the rgb stripes whilst playing a game anyway, only when zooming into a screenshot about 200% or 400% you see it.

Also, I don't want to talk about scanlines in this thread but I will say that I am hearing from a few people that scanlines were not that visible to the human eye so I am hesitant to incorporate them myself at the moment. Regardless of the fact that MAME and HLSL both remove detail to implement scanlines.
Yes, I know scanlines can show up on photo or video footage.

In the same token the shadow mask pattern wasn't really obvious either. I am only wanting to use it to add noise/texturing to what would otherwise be flat shaded areas of the image. Kind of like adding some extra detail to the image but not enough to create 'vertical scanlines'.


Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: jclampy] #73964
10/30/11 05:25 AM
10/30/11 05:25 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 41
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SoltanGris42 Offline
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Originally Posted By jclampy

After searching online last night I still couldn't find anything that supports your aperture stripe methodology.


Fair enough. Although I'll just say that Magenta-Green stripes do simulate the same R G B stripes that you're going for in two pixels instead of three. It isn't really something that needs support, extactly.

The idea was actually linked in this thread earlier by cgwg. He linked this:
Large thread about this stuff...

And you can read more about it in his thread in the SDLMAME forum here: GLSL Issues thread

You might also be interested in earlier effect png's that were used before the hlsl system. They were also aperture mask overlays (or scanline overlays). You can see some here: Old Mame Effect Overlays But I don't know if you can still download them there. They have been posted other places.

I was only posting a few pictures and hlsl settings because you requested it on the scanline thread. But since I don't have anything to say about scanlines because the current settings available in MAME/MESS can do anything you'd like with scanlines with the exception of bloom to expand them vertically in bright areas, I posted the pics/settings here.

Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: SoltanGris42] #73966
10/30/11 05:58 AM
10/30/11 05:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
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jclampy Offline
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I appreciate what you posted, as this is all a learning process for me. Which is why I was seeking further information. It kind of dawned on me that you were mixing the r/g/b beams together so then assumed that it was something 'invented'. Again nothing wrong with that at all. I actually had an idea a week or so ago of actually trying to use a transparent overlay with just black areas to simulate the slots but decided against it. You can't do that with the HLSL filter anyway, but can be done via MAMES border artwork.

When searching last night I did find some of the links you mentioned. It is interesting what can be done via shader effects, there were mixed comments on processing power required, but could be the future I guess. Quite limiting being confined to an aperture.png.

All this will be irrelevant if a revamped HLSL filter is released, we'll all probably have to start from scratch again. wink


Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: SoltanGris42] #73983
10/30/11 10:24 PM
10/30/11 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
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jclampy Offline
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jclampy  Offline
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SoltanGris42,

In regards to; "The idea was actually linked in this thread earlier by cgwg. He linked this:
Large thread about this stuff..."

I don't know much about NES but aren't they displayed on TV's at a different Hz rating to what Arcade games were run at?

Also, I am not sure but don't TV's display video footage or console gaming using odd and even fields where I think Arcade Monitors display Arcade games in a different fashion.

If I am right then you can't use the same ideology for both.

There was one interesting idea made on that forum though, although they were speculating in a way as he said he had no factual numbers to quote. I will see if I can research some numbers.

Edit:
I have come across this link here which is about four pages long, you need to click 'next page' to read on; http://mameworld.info/pc2jamma/monitors.html it has some interesting information on Arcade Monitor basics.

I also just found this page with arcade monitor manuals & specs, although I haven't had a chance to look into them yet; http://www.mikesarcade.com/arcade/monitors.html

Last edited by jclampy; 10/30/11 10:58 PM.

Read about my latest custom HLSL setup here;
http://gamingnos.blogspot.com/
Re: HLSL Shadow Mask Discussion Station [Re: Just Desserts] #73987
10/30/11 11:06 PM
10/30/11 11:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 16,070
USA
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R. Belmont Offline
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Please read my previous post: arcade monitors *are* NTSC televisions *are* arcade monitors *are* NTSC televisions.

The NES is identical to a low-res arcade game for all of the purposes being discussed here.

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