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Re: 0.147 is out [Re: tpreitzel] #82039 10/10/12 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted By tpreitzel

Of course, enhanced testing will improve the mess with MESS and please spare me the trolling nonsense. Furthermore, see my response to mizapf... using OLDER versions of MESS isn't always possible especially on GNU/Linux which I won't be abandoning any time soon. wink I wouldn't even have attempted upgrading MESS if my older version wasn't buggy also. Apparently, for the user of MAME/MESS, it's a choice of which bugs to tolerate due to the lack of adequate testing.


So how do you propose better testing solve the issues I mention? It wouldn't, and very often breakages have nothing at all to do with 'inadequate testing'

The ones which are down to inadequate testing /usually/ get fixed pretty quickly, the deeper issues, for which there is no quick fix are the ones which linger.

That isn't a hard and fast rule (some stuff does get overlooked) but for long term breakages it's by far the most common case.

Re: 0.147 is out [Re: tpreitzel] #82040 10/10/12 08:33 AM
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Lastly, REGRESSIONS don't occur in MAME/MESS due to the lack of maintainers. REGRESSIONS occur in releases due to inadequate testing ... LoL .. wink

Last edited by tpreitzel; 10/10/12 08:34 AM.
Re: 0.147 is out [Re: tpreitzel] #82041 10/10/12 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted By tpreitzel
Originally Posted By judge
And I just work on systems no one gives a damn about wink


Nathan, you're one of few dedicated and helpful developers of
MESS. Thanks for all your past and future work.


At least get the facts straight. Judge isn't Nathan.

Wilbert Pol = Judge

Nathan Woods = Bletch

Re: 0.147 is out [Re: Robbbert] #82042 10/10/12 08:41 AM
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except he's Wilbert Pol, not Nathan...

and your 'enhanced testing' makes basically no sense. Robert Gault has been the most active tester we had about CoCo issues (and we tried to fix all the reported ones, whenever we were capable of), and still he did not even had the program which shows the bug you reported.
how would you suggest to perform, before each release, the testing of thousands of pieces of software for each emulated system, when some of them do not even show the bug unless you trigger very specific actions?


finally, from the rest of your reply to Arbee's comment, the only thing which is "CLEARLY evident" is that you don't know what you're talking about.
so we can move on, and hope someone with CoCo knowledge and C++ skill appears...

Re: 0.147 is out [Re: tpreitzel] #82043 10/10/12 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted By tpreitzel
Lastly, REGRESSIONS don't occur in MAME/MESS due to the lack of maintainers. REGRESSIONS occur in releases due to inadequate testing ... LoL .. wink


false

even just the other day hap has decided that my way of making tri-sports work in MAME isn't correct, and has removed the code, which at the time I thought was a decent solution, in retrospect, it probably wasn't.

quite a few regressions occur *intentionally* with full knowledge of the developers due to fixing other things, and not having a clean way to deal with them.

the single pixel offset for one of the layers in Boulderdash with MAME is the same, it's an odd case which defies the logic set by everything else, I don't want to kludge it, so it regresses until it's better understood, it uses the same chips as everything else, it should work the same, not rely on it's own implementation as it was doing before.

discrete sound simulation was the same, a lot of people moaned when samples were dropped from certain drivers, because the discrete sound at the time didn't sound as good. these days the majority of the implementations of matured to a point where they surpass the samples. It was an intentional 'regression'.


Re: 0.147 is out [Re: Robbbert] #82044 10/10/12 08:44 AM
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Anna Wu Offline
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Is it possible to continue the discussion in a separate thread? smile
It is not 0.147 release specific.

Re: 0.147 is out [Re: Osso] #82045 10/10/12 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted By Osso
Originally Posted By tpreitzel
Originally Posted By judge
And I just work on systems no one gives a damn about wink


Nathan, you're one of few dedicated and helpful developers of
MESS. Thanks for all your past and future work.


At least get the facts straight. Judge isn't Nathan.

Wilbert Pol = Judge

Nathan Woods = Bletch


My mistake as it's been awhile since I've looked at the mess with MESS so thanks for the correction. Unlike many of you, I rarely stay current with developments of MESS and the reasons should be obvious. I really want other alternatives to MESS on GNU/Linux. Hopefully, VCC will soon gain Coco 1/2 emulation... My specific thanks to Nathan still stands. Is Nathan still a developer of MESS?

Re: 0.147 is out [Re: etabeta78] #82046 10/10/12 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted By etabeta78
except he's Wilbert Pol, not Nathan...

and your 'enhanced testing' makes basically no sense. Robert Gault has been the most active tester we had about CoCo issues (and we tried to fix all the reported ones, whenever we were capable of), and still he did not even had the program which shows the bug you reported.
how would you suggest to perform, before each release, the testing of thousands of pieces of software for each emulated system, when some of them do not even show the bug unless you trigger very specific actions?


finally, from the rest of your reply to Arbee's comment, the only thing which is "CLEARLY evident" is that you don't know what you're talking about.
so we can move on, and hope someone with CoCo knowledge and C++ skill appears...
)

Like loading of a disk for example? wink Actually, your comments illustrate that YOU and the rest of the current developers of MAME/MESS don't know how to implement adequate testing so you falsely attack the messenger.

Last edited by tpreitzel; 10/10/12 08:51 AM.
Re: 0.147 is out [Re: Haze] #82047 10/10/12 08:59 AM
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tpreitzel Offline
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Originally Posted By Haze
Originally Posted By tpreitzel
Lastly, REGRESSIONS don't occur in MAME/MESS due to the lack of maintainers. REGRESSIONS occur in releases due to inadequate testing ... LoL .. wink


false

even just the other day hap has decided that my way of making tri-sports work in MAME isn't correct, and has removed the code, which at the time I thought was a decent solution, in retrospect, it probably wasn't.

quite a few regressions occur *intentionally* with full knowledge of the developers due to fixing other things, and not having a clean way to deal with them.

the single pixel offset for one of the layers in Boulderdash with MAME is the same, it's an odd case which defies the logic set by everything else, I don't want to kludge it, so it regresses until it's better understood, it uses the same chips as everything else, it should work the same, not rely on it's own implementation as it was doing before.

discrete sound simulation was the same, a lot of people moaned when samples were dropped from certain drivers, because the discrete sound at the time didn't sound as good. these days the majority of the implementations of matured to a point where they surpass the samples. It was an intentional 'regression'.



Wow, just wow. So you're admitting that some of the developers don't really know the full extent of the ramifications of their tinkering on MAME/MESS BEFORE they make such changes. No, I'm right. REGRESSIONS are occurring because of inadequate design prior to tinkering with the code and inadequate testing after tinkering with the code. You just fully admitted that fact. What was an intentional 'regression', the tinkering or the unknown effects of the tinkering? Wowzers!

Last edited by tpreitzel; 10/10/12 09:05 AM.
Re: 0.147 is out [Re: Anna Wu] #82048 10/10/12 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted By Anna Wu
Is it possible to continue the discussion in a separate thread? smile
It is not 0.147 release specific.


Maybe, it's not just SPECIFIC to 0.147, but it's certainly specific to ALL MAME/MESS releases as it addresses the issue of inadequate testing which is long outstanding.

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