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Yeah, there's not a lot of media related to this game. I guess the only proof I can offer is a picture from the games instruction manual showing the game over screen. I don't believe these were mockups because the quality and lighting is so bad. You can see that it still shows 3 bars on the left. The game over segments will only light up when all lives (flags at the top) and energy is depleted. The 3 segments on the left are the remaining weapon. I recreated the scenario in MAME where I didn't use any of my weapon but got a game over and the segments for the weapons are on the right.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

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I see, now I'm not as convinced anymore it's a BTANB.
I'll repeat that electronically it makes no sense to swap them (even though it would be a simple workaround in the SVG). The weapon pick-up on the left is the same LCD pin as the left power bar, and vice versa.

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OK, I submitted it to MT.

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Hmm, I'm a bit annoyed that you proposed that the SVG is wrong.

Let me explain, current:
left powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin X.
left weapon pickup, LCD pin X

right powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin Y.
right weapon pickup, LCD pin Y.

Swapped:
left powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin Y.
left weapon pickup, LCD pin X

right powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin X.
right weapon pickup, LCD pin Y.

This would mean the LCD pin traces of X/Y get crossed, it's not possible on a 1-layer LCD panel.
Here, my annoyance is not large, I can still joke about it:

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Sorry, I know literally nothing about how MAME uses SVGs. I thought it was just a vector image file with shapes that MAME tells when they should be seen or not seen.

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Yes it's like that, and hooked up the same way as the LCD panel of a Tiger or G&W handheld.
4 common pins (the H pins), lots of segment pins.

A connection between one of the H pins and one of the segment pins, means segment turns on.
Segment traces can't cross with other segment traces.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The bright traces are the segment pins, the faded traces are the common pins.

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Don't spam MVG's garbage here. Not only is it irrelevant to the thread, Modern Vintage Gamer is a complete hack and gets things wrong about as often as he gets things right. He's a Johnny-Come-Lately to the emulation scene after some time in the game industry.

I've had the opposite trajectory: Working on MAME since around 2001/2002, then joining the game industry in 2005, and I'm regularly aghast at how factually incorrect MVG is about emulation-related topics.

He couldn't even get the release year of UltraHLE correct - to this day, the thumbnail for his UltraHLE retrospective says "FULL-SPEED N64 IN 1998?!" when the only way you were getting that was if you owned an actual N64, or if you were sufficient besties with Doc Brown that he'd let you borrow his DeLorean DMC-12 with a flux capacitor aftermarket kit. It's not even a particularly nebulous date range we're talking about here, UltraHLE was released and subsequently killed (by the original authors at least) in a 24-hour time span on January 28th, 1999.

His video on the history of NESticle and Bloodlust Software could've actually done some good in the emulation community if he'd told the story how it had actually happened. It could have been a phenomenal piece about how unhinged emulator users could be, and how perhaps users doxxing and relentlessly harassing emulator developers is something that has long since needed to stop. He could have actually talked to the people who know the real story in order to inform himself. If he'd done that, the ending of the video could've actually been impactful: Talking about how people were literally posting Icer's (Sardu's) family's tax documents online, how people were randomly calling him and his family's land-line, and how a kind-hearted game developer offered him an 'out' by way of a job in the game industry, so that he could have a clean slate, a fresh start, and not have to deal with the public abuse. Instead, MVG's pitiful video meanders just about to the real ending, then just sort of hand-waves the culmination of it all.

This video is no different. Go do some actual homework on how often Nintendo actually issue takedown requests to ROM websites, and then for bonus points, look up how many ROM website owners Nintendo have actually sued. That's a pitifully small number compared to the number of ROM sites that exist, and every single one of those notable examples has the website owner doing some shady shit that ranks about a 9.0 on my "What the Did You Think Would Happen"-O-Meter. The commonly-cited court case that the emulation community went into histrionics over a few years back involved a dude who was literally charging money for what amounted to backroom access to 0-day Switch ROMs. Seriously, what did the website owner think would happen?

Get real, and find better people to get your content from. There's a reason why I'm working on a script for a video on the actual, unvarnished, accurate story of UltraHLE, and the various other stories that MVG has gotten catastrophically wrong. But most importantly, try actually looking into these things for yourself instead of taking the word of some pommy hack.

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Originally Posted by hap
Hmm, I'm a bit annoyed that you proposed that the SVG is wrong.

Let me explain, current:
left powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin X.
left weapon pickup, LCD pin X

right powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin Y.
right weapon pickup, LCD pin Y.

Swapped:
left powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin Y.
left weapon pickup, LCD pin X

right powerbar, 3 segments, LCD pin X.
right weapon pickup, LCD pin Y.

This would mean the LCD pin traces of X/Y get crossed, it's not possible on a 1-layer LCD panel.
Here, my annoyance is not large, I can still joke about it:


I have the original device, and this doesn't look like a MAME bug. Just been testing... horrible game, and weapon and energy do appear to be the wrong way round, but that would be accurate to real hardware. Hope this helps - let me know if more evidence is needed.

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Thanks for testing it, good to know it's not an emulation issue.

As for the picture from the manual being different: I'm pretty sure it's a mock-up. I just tried the game on MAME for a couple minutes, with my eyes focusing on the right side. You see those border segments with diagonal stripes on them? In the manual, you see 4 on the right side, that never happens on MAME. The maximum is 3.

I closed the MT report: https://mametesters.org/view.php?id=8869

Last edited by hap; 06/16/24 10:06 AM.
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