Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 323 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 322 323
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97284 12/06/14 08:36 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
S
seanriddle Offline OP
Very Senior Member
OP Offline
Very Senior Member
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
Yep, definitely CF.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97286 12/07/14 03:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
L
Lord Nightmare Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted By seanriddle


I got one of the S&S units- non-working, but good case. 4 chips on the MB and a "Vowel Power Word Module" plugged into the expansion port. 40 pin DIP TMC0271NCL NBS 7910, 28 pin DIP TMC0351NL NBU 7906, 28 pin DIP TMC0352NL DAU 7901, 28 pin SDIP TMC0281NL D 7906. Vowel Power has 28 pin DIP TMC0350NL CD2302 DAU 7914. I haven't desoldered them yet to see what's on the bottom.


That is a very early speak and spell; that very likely has the location test 1978 firmware rather than the final late 1979-1980-onward one. (in confusing ti fashion, both cpus are called TMC0271N; the TMC0351 and TMC0352 VSM roms on the location test and final firmware are also different with the same part numbers. Yay TI for confusingness. The newer parts are SDIP on mine though while the old location test parts I believe are DIP, as on yours.)
Can you check the back red plastic case of the speak and spell, the lower left corner should have a code impressed in it.
On my location test unit with buttons, it says: MTA1179 (USA) (1979 week 11)
The 'final firmware' one with buttons says PII8020 (Philippines) (1980 week 20)
So it is VERY likely the one you have has the location test firmware!
Later ones made after mid 1980 use a membrane keypad instead of buttons, and have HALF AS MANY WORDS! (and 1 instead of 2 vsm roms! yay for cost-cutting!)

If the speak and spell could be made to work, there's an easy way to tell if it is location test or final firmware:
Put batteries in it, and without the vowel power or other module in it, press 'module select', then press 'spell it'
If it is the 1978-1979 location test firmware (which I'm guessing it is), it will say 'spell it', then a complete gibberish word. Advancing words will cause more gibberish words to be spoken, often with impossible characters such as numbers in their spelling.
If it is the 1979-1980+ final firmware, it will not do anything (no sound at all, if no module is inserted) on pressing module select. Spell it and other modes will continue to use internal words.

Also, on the 1978-79 location test firmware, pressing module select with a module in place has no feedback at all other than all new words come from the module.
On 1979-1980+ final firmware, you will get the '4 tones' sound played when you press module select and a module is inserted.

Addendum: The Location test firmware was famously shown on the Today show (where I believe someone demonstrated the bug/lack of checking of the cart presence). I call it the 'location test' firmware since it was used in 10,000 or so units given to parents and students in several cities in Texas and other states for parent-student usage testing in mid 1978. The units were I believe sold holiday 1978 and onward, and technically the first big batches of units up until sometime in 1979 still have the old firmware.

P.S. The TMC035x VSM ROMs (AKA TMS6100 when sold to non-consumer division customers) are dumpable with an arduino/pic microcontroller/etc without decapping (though they use odd logic levels for input and output, and the power pins are odd too: VDD is -9v and VSS is 0v; see http://www.ti99.com/exelvision/website/telechargement/tms6100-80-data-manual.pdf ). I'm curious if the onboard roms and vowel power cart you have matches the ones that have been dumped already, or are different. In particular, Vowel Power was the first cartridge made, and has 2 or 3 words in it disabled in the dump we have (the word index tables are patched so those words are never called, and are replaced by duplicates of other words on the cart; the word LPC and spelling data still exist, though).

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 12/07/14 08:57 AM. Reason: Clarify old vs new dates, DIP vs SDIP, etc. Add note about location test firmware

"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: Lord Nightmare] #97305 12/08/14 12:00 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
S
seanriddle Offline OP
Very Senior Member
OP Offline
Very Senior Member
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
This case has MTA1279 (Midland Texas America, 12th week 1979) stamped on it. There is also a sticker on the back "NOTICE Sometimes your Speak&Spell will turn on in the "SAY IT" mode instead of the "SPELL A" mode. When this happens, you should press the # key and then the ON key again. Press GO to start the activity." It doesn't power up- no display or sound - I haven't tried to figure out why. I will try to dump the ROMs before decapping the chips. Another unit is on the way with broken buttons, so I was going to swap parts until I get a working one, then decap the other.

I hadn't read Gene Frantz' article until this weekend. Pretty interesting: http://cnx.org/contents/b3014cd9-6e3a-474f-bbaa-c948cbc8e205:1/The_Speak_N_Spell_

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97307 12/08/14 04:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
L
Lord Nightmare Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
So yours was put together one week after mine, and mine has that same sticker on the back as well. I suspect both have the location-test/early firmware.

The schematic for the speak and spell can be found here:
http://furrtek.free.fr/noclass/speakandspell/sns_full.png
and a low quality scan of the less accurate (several errors) older schematic from the book "Electronically Speaking" by John P. Cater (ISBN: 0-672-21947-6) here: http://www.casperelectronics.com/images/other/schematics/spknspl.jpg

I would check the power getting from batteries to the board as well as the tmc0271 pin 37 signal which tells, under software control, the power supply to shut off after a certain timeout, and the power supply module itself (whose schematic is on the furrtek schematic, the top link).

Also check the speak and spell for 'bending damage' from 'circuit benders' mutilating the hardware because they have no idea what they're doing. Depending on what was done this can be easy to fix or very difficult.

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 12/08/14 06:55 AM. Reason: forget replacing the scan for now.

"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: Lord Nightmare] #97319 12/09/14 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 191
P
plgDavid Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
P
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 191
Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare
I'm curious if the onboard roms and vowel power cart you have matches the ones that have been dumped already, or are different.


I also dumped at least one Vowel Power cart and it matched your CRC (C9B82E72)... I might have more than one. dont recall If I've compared all of them on my dumping setup.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: Lord Nightmare] #97338 12/10/14 09:01 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
S
seanriddle Offline OP
Very Senior Member
OP Offline
Very Senior Member
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
I got another S&S- this one works, but is dirty and many buttons are broken. No Word Module. I'll swap parts and make one good one. Date code is MTA4078, and the date codes on the chips are several weeks earlier than the other unit. Board is revision 1D versus 3G on the other. An obvious change is the trace to pin 18 of the VFD has been cut and a resistor put inline. Flux around the display pins, so I guess it was replaced. Speaker wires were also resoldered. Everything else looks stock. Chips are the same numbers as the other unit, but earlier date codes.

Also got a Maniac game, designed by Ralph Baer (RIP).

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97358 12/10/14 07:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
L
Lord Nightmare Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted By seanriddle
Chips are the same numbers as the other unit, but earlier date codes.


This is problematic, as I've noticed that the tmc0351 and 2 from a MTA1179 board and the tmc0351 and 2 from a 1980 board do not have the same contents, but do have the same part numbers. Same with the TMC0271 from the MTA1179 (which has the module 'bug') and the one from the 1980 board (which doesn't).
(maybe at some future date we can try to dump them? I think it may be possible to do using probes on the 4 data lines and otherwise through the edge connector itself)

LN


"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97379 12/12/14 03:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 517
R
ranger_lennier Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 517
I need to remember to check the forums more often. Thanks for decapping those TMS chips, Sean, and to everyone helping with reading and emulating them. There were a lot of interesting devices using these MCUs.

Do you still have the APF Mathemagician games from incog? Those use a TMS1100.

http://www.mess.org/people/incog#apf_mathemagician

http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Misc/APFMathemagician.htm

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: ranger_lennier] #97383 12/12/14 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
S
seanriddle Offline OP
Very Senior Member
OP Offline
Very Senior Member
S
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,049
I sent that one on to Kevtris, and he was able to dump it with his beast (http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/allpro88/)

This folder has most of his TMS work: http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/TMS1000/

It looks like his multi-platform hardware emulator is coming along nicely, too.

Re: TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps) [Re: seanriddle] #97391 12/13/14 07:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
H
hap Offline
Very Senior Member
Offline
Very Senior Member
H
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,071
Does anyone have the manual for APF Mathemagician? I have no clue at all how to play this.. nothing on YouTube either

Page 6 of 323 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 322 323

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 147 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Forum Statistics
Forums9
Topics8,673
Posts113,788
Members4,852
Most Online418
Aug 14th, 2019
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3