Home Page Forums MAME MAME TMS-09xx/1xxx thread (was New Dumps)

hap: ah nice that you got pac-man working. I have another D553C game to add soon; bambino superstar football. I dumped the micro but I have to vector the VFD and trace the PCB first... not sure if I will get to it tonight or if it will be tomorrow.

re: dumping PIC's. I can dump PIC1655's and maybe PIC1655A's (I think the ones I dumped were A's) and PIC1650's which is the 40 pin version with more IOs. I found my dumping rig but I don't know how it works now. I would have to find the code, and the CPU is missing.

sean: MM78's. nope, in ROM dumping mode it does not seem to accept anything on the inputs. reset appears to make the sequence it dumps reset too, so this is the best possible case. I am in mid process wiring up sockets to another PIC to do this triple play dumper (COP411, MM78, and the mitsubishi chip)

all: over on the handheldmuseum forum, we're talking about VFD game dumping and someone posted a picture of the CPU in the select a game machine for football, and it's a TMS1xxx part. I was wondering if this had the same mask # as one of the entex football games, because the select a game was made by them. The part on the cart is an MP7573.

The thread and pictures are here:

www.handheldmuseum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2146&start=30

there's a real sexy PCB shot of the coleco frogger game with the mitsubishi chip that I think I can dump. been trying to buy a frogger off ebay but $50+ is a bit steep.

Cool. I'll try the MM76EL I have, but it'll be this coming weekend at the earliest.

I don't think anyone's looked at the Entex football games yet. From what I've read, their handheld Space Invader is not identical to the Select-A-Game Space Invader, but I've got one handheld Space Invader with a COP444L and another with a TMS-1100, so maybe one of them is the same as the S-A-G cart.

That MP7573 is a 40-pin chip, so it's not a TMS-1000 or -1100. I guess they needed the extra outputs. And it looks like they didn't use a VFD chip or they wouldn't need the transistors?

I will be able to test my MM78 tomorrow along with the COP411 dumping, though unfortunately the 411 is an RC oscillator version so I will have to write some tricky code.

I got the dumper built. You can use a pot to set the voltage on the test pin. it's got a very high input impedance and a 10K pot between ground/15V seems to work OK. if you have the L version I am not sure if it will work or what voltage it needs vs. these "normal" chips.

To put the COP411 into test mode I am using a PNP transistor to 5V and four diodes in series to drop around 2.4V or so, which should make it sit at 2.6V. The data sheet says 2.5-3V max to prevent damage so this should work fine.

Yeah, the COP444L in Space Invader was RC, too, which was one of the reasons I first tried dumping it without doing the setup stuff- I wasn't sure how to drive it. Luckily, the game sets the L port as all outputs, so that part of the setup was taken care of for me. I just used 2 AA batteries on the SO pin with SI grounded to get into ROM dump mode. That worked fine when I powered the chip with 9V, but at 5V I had to add a resistor to SO to get it to go into test mode. The game uses SK as an output, so I lost the data ready signal, but it was easy to figure out the center of the bits

MP75xx logical guess: TMS1600?

There's still 1 thing I'd like to confirm about Tomy Pacman: Is plate#8 always-on? And if it isn't, how does the game access it?

sean: hmm isn't that a 5V only part? 9V could've blown it out. the COP411 at least is 5V only so claims the datasheet. I am going to use the PIC to monitor SK then feed it instructions each time it goes low, and then capture data on the falling edge during capture mode to read the ROM data.

hap: yes that is correct. I just fixed my pinout to say plate 8 is always on. Interestingly when I started dumping these I never thought that they'd just leave some plates on all the time and others tied together but that's what some of the games do.

I received that VFD galaxian 2 today, and desoldered the two CPUs from my adapters (HD38820A28 and A29, the two revs of coleco pac-man) and will solder two more down tonight and dump them.

Also I should be able to test dumping of COP411 and MM78.

Oops, there is a Zener on the PCB; didn't notice that before I just plugged the chip in and played a few games, and it still seems to work fine - lucky me. But the sound is annoying as hell!

With 6 AA batteries installed, I measure 6-7 volts between VSS and VDD at the chip depending on how many LEDs are lit. The 444L data sheet says standard operating voltage is 6.3 max, with an absolute max rating of 10V at any pin with reference to ground. So I guess it could handle 9V for the 2 minutes or so that I dumped the ROM.

Well, the good news: I have dumped 2K of data out of this MM78. I dumped it 32 times and the data is the same on all copies except the first few bytes after reset. This is fairly typical since pipelines are being filled, etc.

The bad news: There's no damn opcode documentation for these parts! grrrrrr. there's some data sheets on bitsavers (see link at end) but like the HMCS docs, there's a list of opcodes but no bit patterns for them.

I checked the other PPS-4/2 docs and the opcodes are almost totally different between the two systems. boooo. There's tons of new opcodes and lots of removed ones, so the two are totally incompatible it looks.

I guess we're stuck until more data about how the chips work shows up. oh well, at least dumping seems to work. I will post my dumps here if anyone wants to play with them: (note: the first 4 bytes it looks are wrong, but 2K later in the file they are right. this is my raw dump with zero processing.)

Data is in bit-order from the chip's RIOx bits. i.e. RIO1 -> D0, RIO2 -> D1, RIO8 -> D7. The data might be inverted coming out, I don't know. bit orders could be wrong too.

When TEST is in the "pass data to CPU bus" mode, the bit mapping looks like this:

PI1 -> RIO8
PI2 -> RIO6
PI3 -> RIO1
PI4 -> RIO2
PI5 -> RIO5
PI6 -> RIO7
PI7 -> RIO4
PI8 -> RIO3

So the bits could really be in "PI" order instead.

My dumps are here:

http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/H...p%20Football/MM78A78C6%20Preliminary.bin

http://blog.kevtris.org/blogfiles/H...p%20Football/MM78A78C7%20Preliminary.bin


The PPS-4 stuff is here:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/rockwell/PPS-4/

After a bit of wrangling I got the COP411 to run. When in test mode the SK pin outputs the CPU clock which makes it easy to synchronize the PIC to the internal operations. I have not yet gotten it to spit any data out but it's looking promising.

sean: what did you do to make it spit out the data? I reset the chip, let it run then threw it into test mode but SK didn't wiggle and it didn't spit out anything on the L lines.

When I try to enter test mode according to the data sheet, things worked OK with regards to SK going active but I haven't been able to make it spit anything out because I have to enable the L lines.

I will try the data sheet method tomorrow.