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Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99554 05/03/15 07:43 AM
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If it's the one on the top right in this picture of a Rainbow 100B mainboard

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/DEC%20Rainbow%20100/Rainbow%20Mainboard%201.jpg

it's 23-U37E3


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99559 05/03/15 09:29 AM
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23-037E3, you mean. The top of the 0 is scraped off.

Is that rom dumped from a 100A or 100B?

Does the rom have any different marking on 100A vs 100B?

There is also an undumped soldered down 82s135 prom, 23-090B1 near the left edge of that image, around the centerline.
At some point we should dump it, but probably not immediately necessary unless it holds something really important. Do we have schematics of this board?

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 05/03/15 09:34 AM. Reason: note about prom

"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99561 05/03/15 09:42 AM
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Interesting! the 23-037E3 font (assuming that's what 'chargen.bin' is), if you discount the 6 unused rows of pixels, the first half matches the 23-018E2 vt100 font. Whats more interesting is the second half, which may very well match the missing, undumped 23-094e2 'alternate character generator' rom from the vt100!

It has the section, paragraph, and foreign language characters I'd expect from the VT100-WK 'word processing' version.

LN


"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99567 05/03/15 11:14 AM
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We might need 23-090B1 for a more faithful emulation, just like the PLA in a C-64.

I * guess * the E13 / 23-090B1 is a 256 x 8 lookup table; Needed for -external- DMA access to lower memory (shared between Z80 and 8088).

Even more important: the arbitration chip also decides which of the two CPUs (Z80 or 8088) has access to contended, shared memory (< 64 K).

We observe strange floppy errors on writes (even with newest wd_fdc code). One explanation is that the arbitration slows down RAM accesses and floppy routines currently run too fast. Just a theory... WAIT is also wired on the Z80, but i dont ´get´ the logic behind it.

E13 on Rainbow-100 B
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37819653/ARBITRATOR.png

E11 on Rainbow-100 A
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37819653/PC100_A__E11_Arbitrator_-_256_x_8.png

Full schematics:
MP01722_PC100-B_Rainbow_Schematic_Jul84.pdf

E13 inputs (A = address lines)
Code:
+SH5 RF SH REQ H   -> Pin 19 (A7) shared memory request / refresh ?
+     1K -> +5 V   -> Pin 18 (A6) < UNUSED >
+SH 2 BDL ACK (L)  -> Pin 17 (A5) BUNDLE OPTION: IRQ acknowledged (*)
+SH 2 NONSHRCYC H  -> Pin 5 (A4) unshared memory cycle is in progress
+SH 2 PRECHARGE H  -> Pin 4 (A3) 
+SH 2 SHMUX 88 ENB -> Pin 3 (A2) shared memory
+SH2 DO REFRESH H  -> Pin 2 (A1) indicates that extended memory must be refreshed -> on J6 as (L)
+SH10 BDL REQ (L)  -> Pin 1 (A0) BUNDLE OPTION wishes to use shared memory  (*)


(*) BDL ACK + BDL REQ from external J4 connector

Additional header files required for the keyboard workaround (to test drive the Rainbow):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37819653/BANNISTER/RAINBOW-100_KEYBOARD_WORKAROUND.7z

Last edited by Bavarese; 05/03/15 04:01 PM.
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99572 05/03/15 04:18 PM
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It sounds like we probably do need that prom dumped then.

Do you have any means to cleanly desolder it so it can be soldered back with no board damage?

Do you have a hakko fr300 (or its predecessor the 808) desoldering tool, and some 60/40 solder (and a temp controlled soldering iron) to wet/re-wet the pins with while de-soldering? Some paste flux may or may not help as well.

EDIT: Also what is it with DEC always assuming every prom is open collector and having a 5v pullup resistor array outside of them? I noticed this while trolling schematics for the past week. (They seem to have mostly stopped the pullups around 1983, dectalk era). Was this just DEC being anal about availability of replacement parts so they could use either an Open Collector or a Tristate PROM when replacing one during field service?

LN

Last edited by Lord Nightmare; 05/03/15 04:23 PM. Reason: add question/rant about dec and pullup resistors on proms

"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: Requirements? [Re: Lord Nightmare] #99576 05/03/15 06:28 PM
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From the picure at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/DEC%20Rainbow%20100/Rainbow%20Mainboard%201.jpg
Is that motherboard a DEC Rainbow 100A or 100B?

Does the character generator rom have any different marking on 100A vs 100B?
Do you know what the 23-xxxEx markings are for the main cpu roms for both 100A and 100B?

Is the chargen.bin in the driver dumped from the 23-037E3 chip or another chip?

LN


"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: Requirements? [Re: Lord Nightmare] #99624 05/06/15 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare
From the picure at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55419307/DEC%20Rainbow%20100/Rainbow%20Mainboard%201.jpg
Is that motherboard a DEC Rainbow 100A or 100B?


100B. 3 EPROMs (2 x 16 K; 1 x 4K).

100A has four EPROMs (E89 + E90 + E91 = 8K; 1 x 4K)
On a 100 A board there should be 3 x 2764 and one 2732 ROM...
(E91) 8 K - type 2764 (28 pins)
(E90) 8 K - type 2764 (28 pins)
(E89) 8 K - type 2764 (28 pins)

(E9 4K - type 2732 (24 pins)

Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare

Does the character generator rom have any different marking on 100A vs 100B?


This screenshot from a 100-A is all i got (yes, it lacks the char ROM)! And the 092E4 number (on the right) somehow dosn't fit.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/37819653/BANNISTER/3_x_2764_-_DECRainbow-A-ROMS_Closeup.jpg

Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare

Do you know what the 23-xxxEx markings are for the main cpu roms for both 100A and 100B?


23-176e4-00= ROM (FA000-FBFFF) (E89) 8 K
23-177e4-00 = ROM (FC000-FDFFF) (E90) 8 K
70-20274-15 = SOCKETED LANGUAGE ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) (USA *)
23-020e3-00 [E98] 2732 (4 K) EPROM * PART NUMBER 12-15006-06


(*) for more complete info, please have a look into the updated driver source (below).

100 -B info verified personally with Rainbow-100 revision "B" (FCC ID : A0994Q - PC100 - B).

100 -A info is from DEC manuals (see end of post).

Code:
// 'Rainbow 100-A' (system module 70-19974-00, PSU H7842-A)
// - first generation hardware (introduced May '82) with ROM 04.03.11
// - inability to boot from hard disc (mind the inadequate PSU)

// AVAILABLE RAM: 64 K on board (versus 128 K on model 'B'). 

// Two compatible memory expansions were sold by DEC:
// (PCIXX-AA) : 64 K (usable on either Rainbow 100-A or 100-B *)
// (PCIXX-AB) : 192 K ( " *) 
// Totals to 256 K on a 100-A, while the RAM limit appears to be 832 K.

// * INVESTIGATE: DEC changed the way RAM expansion cards are addressed 
//                and recognized on the Rainbow 100 B (J6 / BIOS / NMI...?)

// KNOWN DIFFERENCES TO 100-B:
// - cannot control bit 7 of IRQ vector (prevents DOS > 2.01 from booting on unmodified hardware)
// - 4 color palette with graphics option (instead of 16 colors on later models)
// - smaller ROMs (3 x 2764) with fewer routines (no documented way to beep...)
ROM_START(rainbow100a)
ROM_REGION(0x100000, "maincpu", 0)

ROM_LOAD("23-176e4-00.bin", 0xFA000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP) // ROM (FA000-FBFFF) (E89) 8 K
ROM_LOAD("23-177e4-00.bin", 0xFC000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP) // ROM (FC000-FDFFF) (E90) 8 K

// SOCKETED LANGUAGE ROM (E91) with 1 single localization per ROM -
ROM_LOAD("70-20274-15", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - USA 
// ROM_LOAD("bg-r873a-bv", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - Canadian (French)
// ROM_LOAD("bg-r876a-bv", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - British (UK)
// ROM_LOAD("bg-r878a-bv", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - German / Austrian 
// ROM_LOAD("bg-r874a-bv", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - Italian
// ROM_LOAD("bg-r377a-bv", 0xFE000, 0x2000, NO_DUMP)  // ROM (FE000-FFFFF) (E91) 8 K - Spanish
// (...)
// Appendix A / EK-RB100 Rainbow Technical Manual Addendum for 100A and 100B (Dec.84) lists all 15.
// See also MP-01491-00 - PC100A FIELD MAINTENANCE SET.

ROM_REGION(0x1000, "chargen", 0) // [E98] 2732 (4 K) EPROM * PART NUMBER 12-15006-06 * 23020E3-00
ROM_LOAD("23-020e3-00.bin", 0x0000, 0x1000, CRC(1685e452) SHA1(bc299ff1cb74afcededf1a7beb9001188fdcf02f))
ROM_END

//-------------------------------------------------------------
// ROM definition for 100-B (system module 70-19974-02, PSU H7842-D)
// Built until ~ May 1986 (from MP-01491-00)
// - 32 K ROM (version 5.03)
// - 128 K base and 896 K max. mem.
ROM_START(rainbow)
ROM_REGION(0x100000, "maincpu", 0)

// Note that the 'Field Maintenance Print Set 1984' also lists alternate revision 'A1' with 
//              23-063e3-00 (for chargen) and '23074e5-00' / '23073e5-00' for E5-01 / E5-02.

// Part numbers 22E5, 20E5 and 37E3 verified to match revision "B" (FCC ID : A0994Q - PC100 - B).

// BOOT ROM:
ROM_LOAD("23-022e5-00.bin", 0xf0000, 0x4000, CRC(9d1332b4) SHA1(736306d2a36bd44f95a39b36ebbab211cc8fea6e)) 
ROM_RELOAD(0xf4000, 0x4000)

// LANGUAGE ROM:
ROM_LOAD("23-020e5-00.bin", 0xf8000, 0x4000, CRC(8638712f) SHA1(8269b0d95dc6efbe67d500dac3999df4838625d8)) // German, French, English
//ROM_LOAD( "23-015e5-00.bin", 0xf8000, 0x4000, NO_DUMP) // Dutch, French, English
//ROM_LOAD( "23-016e5-00.bin", 0xf8000, 0x4000, NO_DUMP) // Finish, Swedish, English
//ROM_LOAD( "23-017e5-00.bin", 0xf8000, 0x4000, NO_DUMP) // Danish, Norwegian, English 
//ROM_LOAD( "23-018e5-00.bin", 0xf8000, 0x4000, NO_DUMP) // Spanish, Italian, English 
ROM_RELOAD(0xfc000, 0x4000)

// CHARACTER GENERATOR (E3-03)
ROM_REGION(0x1000, "chargen", 0) 
ROM_LOAD("23-037e3.bin", 0x0000, 0x1000, CRC(1685e452) SHA1(bc299ff1cb74afcededf1a7beb9001188fdcf02f))
ROM_END


Originally Posted By Lord Nightmare

Is the chargen.bin in the driver dumped from the 23-037E3 chip or another chip?


037E3, to the best of my knowledge.

The three dumps from my 100-B were identical to Jeff's archive on former 'Drive W'.

On another note, RFKA also got Rainbow-190 dumps (without char ROM), plus an archive from the owner of the TurboW (80286) expansion (Suitable Solutions; came with a slightly hacked 5.03 'B' ROM).

--------
Sources: "Appendix A / EK-RB100 Rainbow Technical Manual Addendum for 100A and 100B (Dec.84)"
See also MP-01491-00 - PC100A Field Maintenance Set
+ MP01722_PC100-B_Rainbow_Schematic_Jul84 (for rev."B")

Last edited by Bavarese; 05/06/15 10:28 AM.
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99626 05/06/15 11:25 AM
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rfka01 Offline OP
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The owner of the TurboW and the "Drive W" website are one and the same person. He promised to look into getting "Drive W" up again soon, and wrote on the subject of the TurboW and the ClikClok:

"I haven't been able to find the original pictures of the Turbow-286 board yet, so I can't determine the chip details,
although it a realtively "common" chip used to interface 286 CPUs to 8088 systems (by my understanding). I doubt I'll be pulling out the motherboard of the Turbow any time soon, though. The Turbow-286 does not have a real-time clock on board. You'd need the separate ClikClok chip, which was just a Dallas Semiconductor clock chip and battery wedged in between the high ROM on the Rainbow and the motherboard (I don't know the wiring details or the chip used - Suitable Solutions painted over the chip labels to dissuade copycats)."


NCR DMV- DEC Rainbow- Siemens PCD- ITT 3030-Oly People- Acorn A5000- Olivetti M20
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99639 05/06/15 10:41 PM
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70-20274-15 - this is a DEC part number for ordering the Language rom; based on the 100A MB picture, the actual part number written on the rom is

LM8402
092E4
this translates to:
23-092E4, burned on 1984 week 2 (what exactly LM means I'm not sure, guessing maybe 'local manufacture' i.e. burned from a .hex file to a rom in one of the many DEC 'branch' service centers?)

LN


"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
Re: Requirements? [Re: rfka01] #99640 05/06/15 11:17 PM
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Here's my work of the past 2 weeks or so, a massive list, based on Pete Turnbull's dunnington.info/public/ lists of DEC ROMs and PROMs with a huge amount of new stuff added at the bottom:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79094972/DECROMs.xlsx

Let me know if there's anything you have dumps of, have on hardware, or know of from MP sheets, screenshots, FCOs (field change orders) or Dec-o-gram stuff which isn't on that list, so I can add it!
Also let me know if there are any errors.

LN


"When life gives you zombies... *CHA-CHIK!* ...you make zombie-ade!"
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